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#1
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w210 steering rack in a w124
I think its been discussed on the forum, But it was more of an arguement as to what is better rather than weather or not it is possible. So, anyone tried this?
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87 w124 om603 |
#2
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I do not think anyone has, you would be the first, if you would prefer the feeling of a W210 in the car that is the W124, then make it happen!
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2006 BMW M5 "Heidi" @ 109,000 miles 2005 MBZ C55 AMG "Lorelai" @ 165,000 miles 1991 MBZ 300E "Benzachino II" @ 165,000 miles 1990 MBZ 500SL "Shoshanna" @ 118,000 miles (On the hunt for a good used M103 engine as of 6/10/23, PM me if you have one to sell!) |
#3
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I believe someone modified a W210 rack for use in a W201 when an LS1 was put in it. I don't know the details but from the pics if you can weld well it didn't appear to be a monumental task. You'd have to get a PS pump from a 1997 M104 car if your car is a 6cyl. Other than that, a bunch of time with a tape measure with the engine out is the key.
Though I'm a fan of R&P, I recently rebuilt all the front suspension on my 190 and after I took the damper off the car feels really lively.
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1993 190E 2.6 Sportline |
#4
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Quote:
thanks Justin
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CENSORED due to not family friendly words |
#5
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+1 on that, also is there any "wobble" with the damper removed ? As far as I know the damper is put there to eliminate wheel wobble which can occur at higher speeds.
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190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar 1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires) |
#6
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You'd feel wheel wobble at high speed even if the damper was on the car.
Few things: My suspension in the front right now (struts nonwithstanding for about another week) is TIGHT. I just replaced all the ball joints and end links and had them fitted with zerk fittings to maintain them to the best of my ability. With the damper on, you forget how well mercedes was able to use this to mask a worn suspension. The damper also serves to buffer impacts (potholes, dropping off the road, etc.) and without it it will be you doing that buffering, just like in older cars. These last two things are the point of the damper on almost any car. I kinda like how mine runs without it because I've got a 240Z that's been worked over and an older Mini so I'm used to a more 'nervous' car. IMO, I've started to dive on long trips with it on simply because it take 3 minutes to take back off and on the highway you don't really need a responsive car and when other people drive it, I don't trust them to not be retarded, and to be honest the heavy feel is starting to grow on me. I wont deny you get loads more feel without it, but you need your suspension to be in good shape. Just my .02
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1993 190E 2.6 Sportline |
#7
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Thanks for the info. My front suspension has lots of new parts so I'll give it a try. I'm coming from an E30 so i would appreciate more lively steering.
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CENSORED due to not family friendly words |
#8
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Quote:
The damper prevents a certain amount of road shock from reaching the steering wheel. It tends to keep everything in check Without it you will feel the road shock and nothing you can do manually will "buffer" it. By the time you feel it, you're already less then stable. Removing it will not increase the performance of your suspension, in fact it will reduce your ability to easily handle the vehicle. Why? Because without it, the stability of the front suspension lessens... Removal doesn't change steering response as response is dictated by the steering box.... Just going to make you hold the wheel harder as your suspension jumps around on an irregular road surface... If it didn't improve handling AMG wouldn't use them.... You always go faster if you're not fighting the steering....
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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg 1971 280SL ROADSTER 1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY 1994 E320 CABRIOLET 1999 C43 AMG 2005 G55K AMG 2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES Last edited by RBYCC; 07-16-2010 at 06:10 PM. |
#9
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I think its tongue in cheek as in you're going to feel all the vibrations. Same thing you're saying. Anyway, its worth a try. The steering is numb and heavy on these cars.
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CENSORED due to not family friendly words |
#10
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tjts was right, I was talking about you having to 'absorb' the impact. I.e. if you're holding the wheel and you nail a pot-hole you're the one that's keeping the wheel from jumping left or right. I'm not sure if you've ever held the steering damper, it has very little low speed damping to allow you to manuver at slow speeds i.e. through a parking lot with a ton of high speed damping to do things like shock absorption. Few things: All your posts seem to denote a strong drag racing history, and I respect that but I don't know what your past entails as far as road racing and auto-x. If AMG uses them on race cars it's most likely because the setup for street tires and slicks is COMPLETELY different. On the road AMG is still subject to all the other liabilities that modern mfg's are and usually tune in some under steer and a slightly heavier steering feel so people with more money than intelligence don't get killed. Removing it allows more road 'feel' (i have no idea how you're going to interpret that) to be transferred to the wheel and on street tires that's a GOOD thing for auto-x since you can feel the traction go away on a turn a whole hell of a lot better than with the damper on. If you're aiming for chuck holes while you drive, than yeah keep the damper on. But on good paved surface where you're not avoiding craters, more steering feel can be a good thing if you want that. There is nothing in the Merc Mac-Pherson strut setup that makes it hugely unstable. Its caster and camber curves as well as steering angles are nothing unheard of amongst other cars with a similar suspension. The car still centers itself and drives straight and no, it doesn't explode due to instability at high speed. If mercedes made an unstable suspension, than just tossing a damper on it isn't going to make it instantly a stable suspension. It's not like when I'm driving down the road I'm fighting with every ounce of my being to keep it in a straight line. It's just as easy to drive now for me. As a racer you should know that even though AMG uses one with AMG's setup to go faster it doesn't mean that if I use one with my setup it will make me faster. Even in the same car, you cant look at something and say without question that it will or will not reduce lap times related to steering feel. Each driver is different and what does or does not make a car faster is pretty dependent on what the driver feels more comfortable with. *This is all tongue-in-cheek. Do with it what you will.
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1993 190E 2.6 Sportline Last edited by MAG58; 07-16-2010 at 05:16 PM. |
#11
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As far as I can tell, the DTM cars didn't use a steering damper but the whole setup is very far from stock.
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CENSORED due to not family friendly words |
#12
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The more I think about it, the more I feel you both are correct..
I'm a novice..never auto-x'd in parking lots... Maybe one day I'll try it...
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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg 1971 280SL ROADSTER 1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY 1994 E320 CABRIOLET 1999 C43 AMG 2005 G55K AMG 2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES |
#13
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autoX is the most fun you can have in a car with your clothes on. I highly recommend it.
Shortly before murdering a whole family of cones.
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#14
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I removed the steering damper this morning. I like it. PS pump might be next.
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CENSORED due to not family friendly words |
#15
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You just have to make sure you keep your front joints in order now, because the slop will produce flutter.
Any closer to your E30 in feel?
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1993 190E 2.6 Sportline |
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