i am still experimenting with ignition timing.

i found this; http://www.wurm-online.de/technik/codierstecker/test.htm

it seems to indicate that the n/a m103 has, at wot, and at 3200rpm,timing around 27 to 31 deg before tdc, with premium gas.

i am going to try to construct a megasquirt map from this starting point using the 1 degree per psi method, upwards, and 0.3 psi per kpa downwards methods... will post back with results.

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ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

hear is a screenshot (i good, i learned how!!!)

test drove it, with mlv, leaned out some around cruize, no pinging when i hammerd it, and thats without any accel enrich at all, i well happy.

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Looks very good. One thing I noticed is different that usually in mid range where is max cylinder filling is normally less advance.

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500whp.net

kynsi, i am open to all suggestions, i just made that table up, from reading loads on the net, but there is some conflicting info, i have used the 28 deg at wot to start, and built it from there, the std 103 make max tourque at aroung 4400 rpm, and have droped the timing a little from there, have yo got a ign map to post i can compare to?

one thing i am unsure about is the tick over area around 1000 rpm and 29 -35 kpa, what advance should be there? i have around 24 deg, is that too much?

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Nick

The TurboTechnics "Service Instruction" manual indicates 39-43 degrees BTDC @3200 RPM which is standard.

EZL trom plug set Position "S" on non cat cars and "1" on cat cars.

Use 98 RON at the minimum.

Ed

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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES

ed, that is interesting. the document i have sorced above is from mercedes? when tt is saying the figures you quote, is that at wot at 3200? there is so much conflicting info around, i cant make a desision as to what to go for.

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Ed, thats with vacuum connected, in the manual there two values given with and without vacuum.

__________________
190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)

thats what i thought, i used 28 deg static timing (quite conservative, but within mercs figures) at 3200rpm and 102 kpa (wot) to base my table from,

as vaume is applied, ie down from wot, the advance comes up, to a touch more than factory, but the car drives well, and showes an improvement in consumption.

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Nick, here is an xls sheet that generates and estimated ignition map base on input (source: PowerPage.dk ).

http://powerpage.dk.web26.wannafindserver.dk/tuning_ignition-filer/Ignition_timing_konfigurator_opstartsmap_v106.xls

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190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)

cool, thanks. what settings should we use in part three for our engines?

from the merc info, we should be around 27 to 31 deg advance at wot at 100kpa, and if i am reading it right, 3200 rpm.

the configurator wont allow that, and if i use 45 as max advance,(wich gives almost the 'correct' advance at 3200) it then gives some pretty high advance under boost, not sure i am willing to risk using the figures...

i have however modded the lower kpa and tickover area to this;

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

i know that as boost rises, in the high rev area, the convention is to hold or even add timing, but i just dare not do it without rolling road backup, and i aint going to the rolling road till ive fitted the charge cooler, so for now the map will do, it is 100 times better than what i had before.

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

also,from my ve table, it seems clear that the t2's aint big enough for my engine, due to the big valve head and ported manifolds, i know it breathes better than std, consequently, there is a peak in ve, then it dies off, as the blowers fail to keep up with the engines capacity to flow.

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Nick, most commonly detonation occurs around peak TQ, so from that point on there is no problem to add 1-2 deg of advance. Pick VE also occurs at peak TQ . A good tuned map would have the ignition rising to just around peak TQ than it would dip at peak TQ and then rise again as the rpms rise .

P.S. best way to tune is using a steady state dyno .

__________________
190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)

this is in agreement with what i have read elsewhare, also i belive that peak tourque is around 4400 on a std 103?


yes to this also, but my ve map is at 130 at the 200kpa bin (gauge shows 12 psi) and 3000 rpm, but then it drops down to 90 at 6800 (gauge shows 8/9 psi) turbos are deff too small. i would hope to be getting say 110 at 6800, wich would be achived by more boooooooooost!


yes, i tryed to show this in the map, but really need to go to ms2, so i can have more resolution.

deffinatly, i will be there when got the charge cooler on!

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Nick, from the experience I have with my engine I can tell you that the VE drops very fast after about 6000 rpms, you can also see this in the gtech hp graphs I have provided in my thread. This in my opinion is due to the fact that these engines were never meant to be high rev monsters (like for instance the 2.5-16v) and the stock cam, intake header size etc. are not optimize for high rev operation. In fact the only reason I rev to 7000rpms is to have a decent top speed since my diff is a 3.07 . Perhaps with tuned length intake/exhaust headers and a different cam the story will be a bit different.

P.S. Nick are you running an m103 ? When I look at your signature an m104 motor comes to my mind .

P.S.S. This is one of the reason I'd like to see a dyno graph of the high revving, mega HP turbo m103s', such a graph will show how a bigger turbocharger (less backpressure) and a custom intake effects the VE up top .

__________________
190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)