S500, S600, or others? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rainmaker · #1 01-22-2002, 09:47 AM

I'm looking to add another Benz to the stable, as a daily driver. The 500E has been seeing too much action lately as I want to relegate it to night time and weekend use only. I'm choosing between a 96 or 97 S500 and a 96 or 97 S600 (I forget which is the 96 and which is the 97). Both vehicles have fairly low miles (20-30k mi) and are in great condition. The S500 is white while the S600 is (yuck!) that awful green. Let's forget about absolute prices for a minute as these two examples are relatively cheap compared to what I can get over here. (a 100-150% tax on imports tend to inflate cars prices locally). Let's just focus on the price differential. The price for the S600 is at a $10k premium to the S500.

My questions are:

- should these cars even be considered for daily driver duty?
- would maintaining these cars be more expensive than a 500E?
- are 96 and 97 model years okay? the 98s and later are out of the question as the currency crisis post 97 brought prices way out in the stratosphere. Somehow, the buyers of 98 and later vehicles have not yet come to grips with the fact that a close to 100% price differential between two model years in not acceptable.
- should I just forget about getting a W140 and get a 99 E240 6 cyl instead for about the same price?

Any thoughts and opinions are most welcome...

Lebenz · #2 01-22-2002, 09:57 AM

A newer Benz will probably be fine for some time to come if you cover the bases -- inspection, MB provided MVR (master vehicle record), check the car’s service history, get carfax report, take all 3 for a back to back drive. Don’t buy it unless it has either a Starmark warranty or a really good aftermarket warranty (the 500 and 600 probably have some of their original warranty as well…).

Life is short. Pursue what brings you the most happiness – follow your heart as a heart seldom lies!

Enjoy the hunt!

allenjdmb · #3 01-22-2002, 10:29 AM

but I'd pass on the 600. The twelves are just too expensive to operate, and should you have a major problem it can quickly turn into a catastrophe. The W140 is expensive enough to look after without the complications of the twelve. At least these cars are the later 140's, so many of the issues should be adressed (evaporator, wiring harness, door and trunk closers). Think carefully here as even though the 96 up cars are much better, the W140 is still, in my opinion, one of MB's worst mistakes. For that kind of money, I'd much rather have a later W210, which is also not perfect, but probably new enough to be in warranty.
Again, this advice is worth what you paid for it!.....

rainmaker · #4 01-22-2002, 10:44 AM

Thanks for the replies so far.

I forgot to add that as these cars are all gray market vehicles (and there's no such thing as a Starmark in my neck of the woods) warranty is a non-issue. The only engine sizes that the local distributor imports here are the 200 to 240 variety with the exception of the S class, which are the S280s, the smallest MB makes for the S class.

That's the only reason why I'm considering a W210 as I think that a W140 would still be a better car over all. I just want to be realistic with what to expect in terms of maintaining them. I'm alright with the 500E. It's been okay actually. My fear lies in all the electronic doodads of the W140, which, admittedly, makes the W140 the great car that it is (in addition to size and ride quality).

Is there any reason why I shouldn't be considering these cars? In other words, stop me now if any of you think this will be a big mistake...

Thanks!

Michael · #5 01-22-2002, 11:03 AM

I think you need to spend some time driving each-the W140 is a bigger car-is that what you really want in your daily driver? Or is economy an issue in any way?

I was in a similar situation last year, needing a daily driver to cut down on 500E use. I briefly considered an S class, but daunting service costs kept me away, not to mention fuel economy. I ended up with a W124 Diesel, since if I really feel the need to speed the 500's waiting in the garage.

If I were in your shoes, I'd get the newer E.

JimF · #6 01-22-2002, 11:19 AM

as Lebenz said, which I second, pursue your heart!

I personally have always wanted (as opposed to 'needed') a 500 coupe and after looking for at least two years, I found one that met my criteria. And I still glad I did it! It's been the best MB that I've ever owned. Also very little maintance problems.

With 25K miles on the car, I would be hard to go wrong in my estimation. Assuming you've done your homework (on the car) AND you really want one, I'd buy the 500 rather than the 600.

But if you just want daily transportation, I'd buy the late E class. I got a chance to drive one (98 or 99 w/ V6 engine) and it just had more zip than I expected.

My $0.02!

Beastie · #7 01-22-2002, 02:50 PM

Rainmaker , Somewhere in this site ( use the search feature) I was looking at the same information for a friend who was considering a brand new S class or used. The articles were read cover to cover and he purchased a 97 S500 and has been extremely pleased ( almost 2 years later ).
Hope this helps.
Alan

-fad · #8 01-23-2002, 06:54 PM

Rain-

for an elite-level /expendible/reliable/ and fun daily driver, see if you can test a later model 2001 Audi S8 (recent new editions have meant big drops in previous yrs models)

if you need a 4-door Sedan, I've seen devaluations also for the Jag XJ-R Sedan and XJ-8

I haven't heard anything regarding their maintence or upkeep requirements however...

-fad

rainmaker · #9 01-24-2002, 12:29 AM

fad,

Truly appreciate the suggestions. And I've considered them at some point. They're nice cars, but...

The S8 is too expensive. Over here, those things cost around $100K. Ouch! And due to the dearth of upscale Audis here (the dealers only import the A4 and A6), parts are VERY expensive and take forever to source.

The Jags would have been nice, and i've checked a couple of examples but there seem to be no excellent Jag mechanics available. I checked out a 99 or 00 (i forget) XJR (the supercharged sedan) which was selling for $30K...but taxes weren't paid, and it would have cost me twice that and change for taxes.

Search is still on.... After browsing through the site, it seems like only JimF isn't complaining about maintenance issues. That's a bit disconcerting (the fact that so many are complaining, not JimF's good fortune!)

I've widened my choices to include:
- a 96 Range Rover with 4k on the odo, which recently got all the necessary updates (air suspension, exhause, air pumps, etc.)
- 97 or 98 LR Disco
- A 96-99 G wagen if I can find one at a decent price (doubt it)
- the aforementioned 98/99 E240 Sedan or wagon.

I was considering 97-99 BMW 7 series but upon doing some research, they seem to have their own versions of maintenance issues as the W140.

I'd definitely need to get a car/truck with at least a peppy 6 cyl engine in it. The 4 cyl W210 I drove seemed to be a bit strained for my taste. I'm sure coming straight out of the 500E didn't help matters at all... : )

akry · #10 01-24-2002, 12:16 PM

My .02cents worth....

Skip V12 model.... S500 offers the BEST compromise of performance and gas mileage of ALL W140..... it really depends on what you are looking for...

My W140 was a daily driver for my Father since March 1992, and up til 1995, when he decided to stay in Asia longer than in Canada(business), he pass on the car to me, and since then, it has been my daily driver 'til recently after I aquired my TL Type S(my brother is driving it now)....

'97 models should have all the bugs worked out, and would be a very rock-solid car. Skip 1996 if possible, first year with 5-speed electronic tranny, and heard there were some glitches....

I have listed couple lists regarding changes done to North America W140s through out its life cycle(might miss things here and there... :p).... hope these would help....

Help! 1994 600SEL or S600

1993 400SEL - Reliability?

Hm... there should be a much detail list, but I can't find it some how...

Anyways, keep searching, it's hiding on this site some where... heh

Andy Kuo

rainmaker · #11 01-24-2002, 07:42 PM

Thanks Andy!

I did see the post you were referring to. I believe it was a post someone else started and you basically broke down the various changes and options from year to year. Very informative! Thanks again.

I'm checking out the S500 next week, among other cars. I'll have the dealer give her a thorough check-up to see what sort of surprises are in store for me if I decide to get her...

Badinfo · #12 01-24-2002, 11:36 PM

Wow... let me just say you guys have lots of money to play around with

I would go with an s600 from a purely teenage point of view. You have a big v12... probably one of the most powerful engines put into a street benz. As far as maintenence is concerned, you are chosing between a s500 and s600... maintenence would be pennies on the dollar compared to the price of both of those cars. I don't mean to sound degrading or anything, but if you have enough money to buy a s500 or s600, maybe you shouldn't worry too much about maintenence costs. (I apologize to anyone that I might have offended right there, I in no way mean to belittle anyone for chosing a s500 or 600, and I understand that for some people, buying a car that expensive would mean not a lot of money to spend on maintaining it.) But anyway... someday... when you guys are old men and im out of college (14 years to complete a phd and MD sounds about right)... ill buy an expensive benz and you guys can all call me crazy...

-fad · #13 01-25-2002, 02:07 PM

Hey Rain- what's your thought's about a W210 E320 wagon? ...could be just the daily driver that would fill you needs...and with a few mods....

hmmm
-fa

rainmaker · #14 01-25-2002, 03:26 PM

fad,

would love one. as a matter of fact, i do think it would make a perfect daily driver but it's simply not available here.

The local distributors bring in only up to the 2.4 6 cyl (W210s). The gray market ones are mostly large displacement S classes. I guess the thinking is that if they're spending money anyway to bring in a car, might as well bring in the best, right? An S320 would do as well but the examples I've seen aren't up to snuff. For some reason, it is the S500s and S600s that are well taken car of and thus the only ones worth considering among the W140s available. S320s tend to be hotel cars, very few private imports, and as I said, the ones that are available are pretty much beat up.

Badinfo,

Spending money for a car is one thing. Maintenance is quite another. If maintenance is not that onerous, spending a little more for the acquisition may be justified. Big $ acquisitions plus big $ maintenance, especially if no warranty is available is simply not acceptable to me since I would have to take into consideration the total cost of ownership. (I also take into account depreciation and what I can eventually sell the car for several years down the road). It's called looking at the big picture. And it applies as well to buying less expensive vehicles.

Remember, I was looking for a daily driver, which would mean racking up the miles. At some point, the car would have to be replaced so I have to take all these things in consideration. It's simply a matter of budgeting, keeping things real and reasonable, and managing expectations (mine).

On the other hand, I intend on keeping the E500 for a very long time. I paid quite a premium for it and I was fine with it. What I was paying for over and above the value of the car was the chance to own one of only two examples in the country (a third is rumoured to exist but I haven't seen it).

I've knocked off the disco out of the list. I realized I'd still be wishing I got a Range Rover if I settle for the Disco. I think I'm scratching the S600 out of the list as well. Too much money for the nice V12 badge (I sincerely doubt the I'd have much use for the extra power...it's the diminishing returns/diminishing marginal utility thing...) The G wagen, I also just realized, will always be a pipe dream. Not too many of those here and the ones I know who own one aren't selling.

Now it basically boils down to a choice between the S500 and the Range Rover... I'd love to get both, but that just too fiscally irresponsible.

kwmccauley · #15 01-27-2002, 10:06 AM

Rainmaker,

I used to live in Hong Kong and did a good bit of traveling in the
Asia/Pacific region. I'm not sure where you live in Asia but based on places I've traveled, I'm surprised the subject of USD5.00+/gallon gasoline and small parking spaces vs. S-class body size has not yet come up in this thread. Of course, if you have a chauffeur and/or private carpark at your office and home this may not be such a big issue.

I have a 1999 W210 turbodiesel. Great vehicle with excellent power and fuel economy !
Enjoy,
Ken

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