I'm not in the same league as you guys regarding devotion to peformance and so on, but I thought maybe you would be willing to help me find a car that handles better than the standard E320. My wife has a 1994 E320, and it's a good car, but doesn't compare to, for example, a BMW 528i for handling. It has standard tires and wheels, etc. I am looking for a car for myself, and want Mercedes quality but BMW handling (so to speak). I hope this will raise a hue and cry from some of you who are convinced that Mercedes can be as good or better than BMW, and will point me in the right direction. My budget is around $20,000.

Thanks

You may consider the 124 coupe or sedan with Sportline suspension.

Or, you can upgrade the suspension when you find the right car.

For $20K you can be picky and fine a nice example.

Do the coupes always come with the Sportline suspension? I presume it was an option.
If I decided to upgrade a sedan or coupe to that suspension, what kind of money would I be looking at?

Hey guys, check out the DIY portion of mercedesshop.com - there's an article on the before and after results, costs, etc. I believe the all the parts for the Sportline package (which is only for the E320 as I understand), is $1200-1400 from what I remember reading.

Also, I'm sure a search of "Sportline" in the forums archives would yield alot of info.

Regards,
- Ryan

__________________
'95 E420 - 'Shadowfax' 138kmi.
'92 Volvo 740Turbo Bard 193kmi
'74 240D - 'Ol' Green' 4spd Manual 104kmi. (sold )
'77 300D - 'Red' 223kmi (sold)
'75 240D - 'Bianca the Blue Bomber' (sold)

"Do the coupes always come with the Sportline suspension? I presume it was an option.
If I decided to upgrade a sedan or coupe to that suspension, what kind of money would I be looking at?"

No. Most coupes did not. In fact, a vehicle with factory Sportline Option (in great condition/low miles, etc.) may be tough to find.

If you are a DIY, you could swing the conversion for $1,200-$1,500, plus the cost of a good alignment. The only real difference you won't get is the quicker-ratio steering, badges, etc.

I am in the process myself of having this done.....my budget will be in the neighborhood of $2K. If you are considering BMW vs. Mercedes, this is a small price to pay.

Again, for $20K you can get a cherry car and still have the cash to upgrade the suspension. Plus, you'll own a car that will provide you with all the safety, engineering, performance and longevity that MB's are famous for.

As for the 94 and up cars (E320) only having the Sportline Option, read the information under the "featured cars" section. Any of the 124 coupes or sedans from 92-95 could be ordered with Sportline as a factory option. But, this does not preclude earlier model year 124's from benefitting from upgrading to this level of performance.

If tighter handling is the only thing keeping you on the fence between Mercedes and BMW, this may prove to be an alternative for you.

This topic is very subjective, though. What may be great for me may not work at all for you (I had a lengthy discussion with an MB tech recently as to what his favorite car he ever owned was; he said his 1993 300E (with factory sportline), even over his 500E! - I thought he was nuts...)

See if there is a car in your area you can test drive with Sportline. The only way you'll know for yourself is to compare.

Good luck in your search!

I think a E420 with a sportline kit would be the best

E420s are getting cheaper and have a great engine!

But with the added weight might not have the handling your looking for.

Damn...I don't know why I even replied :-(

JCE did the Sportline conversion to his 300E and says that he is pleased with it (the parts can be ordered from Phil at our board sponso PartsShop and there is an article on it on this board):

http://www.peachparts.com/sportline_suspension.htm

As remarked above, I do not think that the PartsShop Sportline suspension kit included the quick-ratio steering -- for it you will need to get a factory Sportline car.

If you don't need the E-class rear seat room and can find a '92 or '93 190E with both the factory Sportline package and a 5-speed manual, that might be an optimal budget alternative. See http://www.peachparts.com/shopfor...?threadid=29894. If a manual is an important part of the "handling" package, then you have fewer M-B alternatives.

The 190E Limited Edition (of which 700 were made in '93 only) had the factory Sportline, quicker ratio steering, a smaller steering wheel, special wheels with 205/55/15 Z-rated tires, 4 place sport interior like the 2.3-16V but with black leather with red piping and inserts, carbon fiber dash, etc. -- however, the transmission is the 4-speed automatic rather than a manual. Given the limited production, they are very hard to find (there are currently two listed on Autotrader) -- I got one for my daughter with 64,000 miles for under $12,000, which I thought was a real bargain and well under your price range topend.

Another alternative is the C36 (tho it does not have the interior room of the E class and will be a bit more than your $20,000 budget) -- the earlier versions are now down in the $20's, tho the '97 with the 5-speed transmission is, IMO, more desireable. You'll pay a bit more for a Starmarked example, which might be worthwhile as insurance against replacement of expensive AMG-specific engine and drivetrain parts (tho there's no reason to believe that they are susceptible to failure). I would not, myself, get a used M3, while I think a used AMG car is likely to be fine.

I would point out that the M-B steering just has a different feel from BMW -- subjectively, to me, the M-B steering feel is more planted, heavier and more solid, but not as sharp or immediate as BMW's -- in an M3, you feel like you're carving the road up with a razor. A Sportline or AMG suspension will reduce body lean and increase control, but I don't think that you'll be able to duplicate the exact BMW handling "feel" in the steering, even with the M-B quicker ratio steering. Then again, I don't think the M cars have M-B's durability, solidity or level of luxury inside.

__________________
'98 C43 AMG
'88 420SEL
'93 190E Limited Edition (including factory Sportline package)

Thanks for all the input so far.
Following your suggestions, I found a Sportline about 200 miles away (1992 300E) that I might try to drive this weekend.

"I would not, myself, get a used M3, while I think a used AMG car is likely to be fine." - C43AMG

Well said. Agree 100%.

I have driven, but not owned, numerous BMW's (M-Coupe, 2000 7-series, 540i, 2000 M3, etc) and even when brand new, there is no comparison in quality, IMO. The only car that handles GREAT (to me) of these above BMWs was the M Coupe. No room in that car, though.

I love the solid feel of the W124. I love the fluid pillarless design of the 300CE/E320 coupe. IF ONLY DBAG WOULD HAVE BUILT THE 500CE!!

As I think more about it, I realize that I am looking for the feel of the car, the tight feeling of the steering, the excellent cornering, and the torque at moderate to low speed to get me around and out of trouble. The top end speed, etc. is of no real interest to me, as much of my driving is on two lane back roads - lots of corners, dips, bumps and occasional short passing lanes. It's not the speed that I get a kick out of, its the feeling of control. On top of that my wife is going to exercise veto power on anything that is "not safe", which translates to getting the bigger chassis (W124 instead of C class) and second generation airbags (when did these come in?). I'd like to get a car with head airbags too, since in my line of work (medicine) I've seen one too many head traumas, but unfortunately these are only in the late models, too expensive.

kjohnson,

1. What model year 528 are you looking at?

2. Is it a prerequisite that you have a manual transmission?

I drove a 1994 528i, a 1998 and a 1999 (high mileage so lower price). These were automatics, which I prefer.

I think your problem is that, with your budget, you have resigned yourself to not being able to have the entire wish-list -- you'll have to look at earlier M-B or BMW models which may not have all the latest in airbags. Perhaps the solution on your budgeted amount is to go to a lease and get a Starmarked C36 AMG or C43 AMG, extend the Starmark warranty and lease it for the warranty period -- both have plenty of power at the low end without a manual, as well as M-B solidity.

If you need the manual for control and low-end power by holding it in a lower gear, then perhaps you should look at leasing an off-lease manual 3-series -- but only M-B will provide a factory warranty as far back as '93. If you prefer an automatic, then the M-Bs are in the mix.

For something completely different, what about a Honda S2000 -- tremendous handling, very good performance in crashes (a number of the hot-rodders with this car have managed to overcook it and walked away: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1), but probably useless in snow -- Blizzaks or Alpins may enable you to get around -- or, for an all-weather interceptor, the AWD Subaru WRX -- not a BMW or Benzer, but within the budget limitations and fun to drive.

__________________
'98 C43 AMG
'88 420SEL
'93 190E Limited Edition (including factory Sportline package)

kjohnson,

Do you plan to keep the car for more than a couple years? If so, I'd strongly favor any MB.

Do youself a favor and drive the '92 Sportline before you make your final decision.

Good luck and happy hunting!

Here's my take...for 20 g's you can find a very nice 400E or a higher mileage 500E that'll give you the superior build quality and extra-ordinary performance although handling will never be on par with , let's say, a 3 series BMW car...but it'll be just fine for most purposes. Don't be too put off by a high mileage MB...they are quite solid and reliable well after 100,000 miles, with the proper care, obviuosly... If you need or prefer a smaller size then search out a C36 or C43...which would be more like what you are driving now with a little more panache , albeit a bit more expensive...there's a C36 here in CT for about $25 K and about 50,000 miles for an example. Good luck with the search.

__________________
Jim

1992 500E
2007 CLK63
2003 Audi RS6
2001 Audi allroad