Stand alone 722.6 tcu
 

So PCS has been working on finalizing the firmware for the 722.6/wa580 transmission the last couple of weeks. I have been driving around like a mad man testing stuff. We are almost complete. Basically we have put in all the parameters that the tcu now knows actual gear ratios and completed gear shifts. This means most importantly that the tcu knows if the transmission is in the correct gear and has the ability to correct if not. It also finishes a shift on gear change complete rather than a set time. This means that the shifts are not only much quicker but also much smoother. It was always a hard balance to play the pressure and shift timer. We also have snow mode working and are working on a few other features that have been messed up with all the changes but the basic transmission operation is really solid now. Even if you manage to mess up the pressures enough that it is missing shifts it keeps trying until the shift has completed. You can also easily diagnose a missed shift in the datalogs, adjust pressures and correct the problem. I think that this will be much easier to tune on new setups. I hope to have the standalone systems with the new firmware available shortly and then on to the CAN bus for installing in factory equipped cars. This will be huge of course for the performance guys that are modifying their cars beyond what the factory tcu can deal with.

Cool, I've been following the PCS solution for a while.

From reading the Mercedes factory info, the 722.6 engages the shift solenoids only when a shift is requested ( it uses PWM for these solenoids as well ) and " ratchets " through the gears rather than speed 1 sol , speed 2 sol . . . or even a combo. The 1-2 shift soll is also used for the 4-5 shift from what I recall.

Yes, the shift sequences are initiated and pressure controls are through the pwm of solenoids. Once a shift is completed everything returns to a rest state. So you could in essence disconnect the computer from the transmission and it would stay in whatever gear it was in until you cycled the shifter. And then you would be in 2nd only. Commanding shifts is fairly straight forward but it must be sequential and because of this things must be setup properly.

While I'm guessing that this is out of my reach, what are the stand alone versions going for, or is there a price assigned yet?

The basic tcu package is 940.00. This is for the harness and the tcu. Most people need a few additional items and the average price is around 1140.00. You will also need a shifter and transmission of course. And depending on the setup a trigger wheel for the driveshaft. I am working on a setup for this but it is difficult to have something that works on all cars since there are so many different flanges on the transmission.

Nice to see this progressing. Is this an all new TCU or just a firmware update. If you recall in my conversations several years ago. On my wish list was to pick up at least tach and wheel speed over the CAN. I believe these CAN parameters wont change from year to year, unless MB is deliberately trying to screw us. I was also wondering if this will work with the newer 7 speed transmissions.

This is just new firmware. We are almost done with the setup. What I have right now works perfectly but we are making a few changes to some procedures to fine tune it.
The 722.9 is a different problem due to the imbedded tcu in the valve body. PCS is planning on working on this but with a can interface module. This will be very hard though due to the drive authorization.

I don't know anyone, myself included, with anything good to say about the 722.9. There was a good stretch where Mercedes wouldn't even sell the valve body for it in an attempt to keep the fiasco in house. I can't imagine anybody willfully putting that disaster behind anything.

If only I could mount my t-case to a 722.6, I'd be interested. Looks like I'll be prepping a 722.3 before long instead:rolleyes:

The 722.9 is not bad just not friendly. They will not sell the valve body because they are trying not to sell parts to independents as much as possible. Besides coding it requires a pretty big investment for not much return.

This is awesome news on the 722.6 controller... thanks for the update, Russell! Now who will be the first to try an installation in a 124.034/.036??

:stuart:

Hi Dave, nice to see you're here too.

I may not be the very first one, but damn close to I hope. :juggle2:

Hi Russell, my 722.6 transmission and LSD have now been installed but my mechanic is waiting on some clear weather free of snow to even try driving it down the street. Is this new firmware something that he should install before he starts the road tuning phase?

It wont effect the tune much if any. So no he can proceed.

Haven't those crazy diesel guys in Europe covered that??? I'm thinking about doing it

The diesel guys, probably, yes. But the 124.034/.036 is the 400E/500E with M119 gas engine. I've not heard of anyone converting a W124 with M119 to a 722.6 tranny... but I'd sure like to see it done!

:euro:

GSRX,

Someone in Denmark(somewhere out there) did it. It is not hard to do. The 722.6 has pressure regulator solenoid that oscillates at around 1000 to 2000 Hertz and the solenoids have to be fired in sequence, and fired in sequence in down shifting.

The hardest thing is to get the auto up shift and auto down shift.

A poor mans manual shifter would be easy to create for the 722.6-like a paddle shifter using a Arduino and some transistors.

The person in Denmark did it with a Arduino Embedded development board-these are $40-the high school systems of the US are teaching kids to program on Arduinos.

The 722.6 is the best transmission for anything and everything-Power capacity-very easy to DIY repair-longevity is 20 to 30% more then other Mercedes transmissions-It tolerates lots of abuse-Mercedes newer V12 cars still come with the 722.6.

The great thing is the third party transmission parts makers make all the soft and valve body parts. Valve body parts on the other Mercedes transmissions are non existant, so one is forced to buy the whole valve body at a one to two thousand(at that price it throws the idea of DIY out the window). Oh, Chrysler use it too-Crossfire-Jeep Commander-I think the Charger...

Here are some good links:

Transmission

www.MSgpio.com • View topic - Mercedes-Benz 722.6 (NAG1) Automatic Transmission

mercedes transmissions

Everything you ever wanted to know about a NAG1 valve body - Cherokee SRT8 Forum

Martin

I thing that you are under estimating the simplicity of this by a lot. If you just want to shift the transmission at full pressure in sequence you could do this quite simply. You could also use a simple load to pressure control. To make the pressures somewhat linear to load. But there is a lot more going on and making it reliable and smooth is a whole other ball game. You 1st have to downshift to 1st upon startup since the transmission starts in 2nd. Then you have to have a rather complex shift pressure sequence. You run two pressure control solenoids during a shift and the pressures change from a shift sequence back to a non shift pressure table. This all has to be timed with the shift solenoid coming on. Now do you want the tcu to know what gear it is in?
THis gets really hard. There are two internal speed sensors. Both are planetary speed sensors. So instead of an input and output speed sensor which would be an easy gear calculation or an input and add a driveshaft speed sensor for the same you have to add a driveshaft speed sensor and then switch between the speed sensors from gear to gear. This is just so the tcu knows what gear it is currently in. Otherwise if you command a shift and it does not complete then it will not know any better and when you command the next shift it will not be correct any more.
Now there are people out there and some are customers of mine that do not car at all about shift quality or auto shifting or anything of the sort. But that is a rare bread.
I have thousands of hours in tuning and testing and tuning and testing to get this where it is now.

Some American electronic shift transmissions are just slightly modified hydraulic shift units, these can be operated by generating synthetic throttle pressure ( engine load ) , . governor pressure ( road speed ) then letting the rest of the valve body take it from there.

Some have a solenoid to control line pressure and cycle solenoids to command shifts. In these two cases a simple control circuit is enough.

Chrysler in the late 80's was a pioneer in the active electronic shift trans ( the 4 speed front drive 604 ) These trans need a learning sequence to operate properly. They also monitor "fill volumes" to assure proper shift timing as the clutches wear, gain clearance and take longer to apply.

Update.
Newest firmware is pretty solid. The only way to get out of sync is to be to aggressive with the shift timers. Which is just not necessary. At .4 seconds it is rock solid. If you are in manual mode you can run faster. I am running at .2 safely in one car and .3 in the other. I think that .4 will give that extra margin. It also depends on transmission setup and tune of course.
The only thing that is not working right now is simple manual mode which is not very useful to be honest. It really just works like the manual selection in the shifter. I just use full manual mode on my cars if I want to select gears. Really the only thing you would use it for is engine braking.

Just found this thread, so am putting an oar in here so I don't lose it.

I've collected:

--a running '87 300TD (124.193),
--another which has had the head removed but seems otherwise intact;
--a '94 E320 gasser wagon with bad front suspension;
--an OM606.962 block and head;
--an OM606.912 with IP and all the other parts which hang off the engine;
--and a 722.6 transmission.

Am accumulating heavy-duty swaybars et cetera. Also will soon own a spare OM603 engine and a 350SDL IP.

Exquisite mischief lies somewhere herein, I am confident.

Now I just have an urgent need to find a shop bay in the Seattle area I can rent for 3-4 months. Also I think I am going to need to acquire (or at least rent) a light pickup truck.

@whipplem104, is it in the nature of your business to take a 722.6 and build it up with kevlar clutch facings et cetera, preparatory to installing your tcu?

Please excuse my noviceness if I am barking up any wrong trees here...

I do not normally build transmissions for customers for the tcu. You are local to me though and I can discuss this. I rebuild transmissions all the time and can do this for you if you are interested. I will pm you with contact info.

Would like to put a 722.6 in my 190e. Just installed a m103 3.0 with wiseco dished pistons and t3/t4 and additional injectors for under boost. But I really would love this trans! What all would it take to make this work? I'm not far away from you whipplem104. How much would something like this run me?

It depends on what you want out of it. I will pm you and we can talk about the details.

Huge push on the tuning in for this yesterday. I finally managed to dial in the 3-4 shift.
It is a clutch to clutch shift which means that it has to be timed properly or you can get bind or a flare up like from being essentially in neutral for a short time.
I was working on some valve body modifications and realized something in my tune that would help a great deal. The problem has always been that as you try and tune out the flare up that the transmission would bounce back into 3rd uncontrolled. Pressures in the valve body and valves not in the correct position. I realized why that happens on Friday and was able to make a fairly simple change in the tuning to use as a test and completely eliminated this problem.
Then to the flare up. I have a local customer with a '73 CUDA/Challenger with 5.7hemi and a nag1 or 722.6. Completely stock transmission. I changed his calibration and was not able to get rid of the flare but then after a couple of tries on the valve body was able to completely nail the 3-4 shift at wot.
Simply opening up the hole for the k3 clutch on the intermediate plate were it bolts to the transmission allowing the clutch to fill faster at lower pressure did the trick. I have some more work to do on how big the hole should be. We ran out of time yesterday. I would like to try a little bigger. Although it does not seem to need it.
Cannot wait to try this on my coupe. This was the last big tuning hurdle I had. The system is just really good now.

This is great news. Ive been toying with the ideal of doing a M113 swap into my w126. And standalone TCU integration has been my only area of concern. I will be megasquiring the current 4.2 m116 for this year, midas well when 90% of the MS parts can carry over. But planning to use the MS3-pro to run the M113 5.4L sc . And with the PCS 722.6 in the works. This will be a wonderful combo!:D

Give me a shout whenever you are ready or have any questions.

?
 

Hi there

I own a w202 turbo w111
I made some serious numbers with my last setup...
My transmition doesn't seem to good...
I use a manual w203 270cdi 6 speed and want to go Auto
I ve heard that 722.6 can handle serious torque...

Can I go with ur controller? Anything else needed to go from manual to Auto?
I use standalone efi .... Does this system need something more to work ? Does It work on its own? Can I put it on a BMW lets say?can I use paddles to manual shift?

Would be really glad for your response
Thanx ... Theodore

You will need a shifter and a driveshaft at the minimum.
As far as using it with a standalone efi that is no problem. All it needs is shifter status and TPS and Engine rpm. It does require tuning for your specific application and tuning software comes with for doing this.
As far as power capabilities the transmissions very a great deal in the setup inside. For something making high power a good starting point is using a v8 transmission and swap the correct bellhousing to fit your engine. The torque converters are different for the inline engines as well.

Can I use paddles? Does it have something like launch control or something for good 18m on the dragstrip?

You can use paddle shifters but for drag racing you would use the WOT shift tables.
As for launch control that would be something your ecu would do. Automatics do not have lock up rate control like the dual clutch transmissions. You could use a pwm output to reduce power at lower speeds or in lower gears if your ecu will do that.
If you are turbo the other thing to do is to put a multi stage boost controller on. PCS makes a very nice datalogger, D200, with a 15 stage boost control feature. You can make each stage whatever you want for how much boost and what the trigger is to change. So you could have boost per gear, plus boost per mph, plus if wheel slip was above x% to go to a lower boost etc. Almost what ever you can come up with. So you could leave the line at 5lbs of boost and then at 5mph switch to 10lbs, then in 2nd go to 15lbs, and so on.
You can also datalog all the ecu and tcu data from one spot.

sorry but i think i lost it....
the pcs is the controler for the gearbox....ok?
it works also like a boost control?
what is WOT?

Yes the PCS is the company that makes the transmission controller (TCU),
Your ECU controls the engine boost, however you can have the trans controller talk with the ECU to demand lower power, or control boost levels during the shift. And or, adjust boost depending on what gear your in/speed/etc, Just like Whipplem mentioned. This can act like a launch control. You don't need full power until you get into 2nd/3rd gear. Once traction catches up with you.:D

WOT is wide open throttle.

That is correct. You can send pwm outputs per gear and for shifting from the tcu. If your ecu can adjust timing or boost or both from this then that can help.
But PCS also makes a product called the D200. It is a touch screen datalogger that has a feature for multistage boost control. With the D200 you can get way more complicated in your boost strategy.
If you are just running a simple boost map. Say target 20psi no matter what the rpm or load or gear is there can be a lot gained in having a more complicated strategy for launching the car.

Thought I would share this. I have been working on CAN messages some more. I use a CAN router that translates the PCS CAN messages and the factory messages. This is just the standard software monitor screen but the TPS and RPM values are coming in via CAN. This was hooked up to a 2002 S class. I need a few more values to get the check engine light off. But little by little I am getting there.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1435096926732578&set=vb.100006968533102&type=2&theater

What is required to bolt the 722.6 to an OM617, other than a controller? Is the bolt pattern identical or is there an adapter plate available?

Also, would the D200 control a VNT Garrett or similar with just the two pressure sensors and a throttle position potentiometer? If so, how much is the package for the electronic transmission control with the D200?

Thanks,
Karl in LA

You would have to make an adapter plate for the om617. Bolt patterns are different.
As far as the D200 controlling a vnt turbo. I would have to know what signal it requires. The d200 produces a pwm signal at a set hz. I think it is 15hz. You can do several different control strategies for the output. For example tps vs rpm. Or any x/y axis that you have input to the D200. You can also set up a targeted boost pressure with a closed loop function. This is an add on feature.

Just found this thread tonight, I have a 1983 300D Turbo (OM617 Turbo) and would love a 722.6 in it, so all i would need is this tcu, harness, and find a shifter for it? Obviously along with fabbing an adapter plate etc.

That is about right. You will also need a tps sensor for it. And have to get the right drive line flange for the driveshaft.

So I would need the accelerator pedal out of a 722.6 car also as there us no throttle valve (or plate depending on what other people call it) on the om617? If I remember correctly the pedal assembly has the tps in it

No, You just add a tps sensor to the linkage. I sell a carb. kit for the sensor with the system for these types of applications. If you are really interested give me a ring.
425-503-9233. I am on West coast time.

Nice!

I am intrested about can protocol and messages that factory ecu sends. Then it is possible to hook-up aftermarket ecu to send can messages and use stock 722.6 TCU. (or use separate arduino board to feed stock TCU.

Aftermarket ECU/Arduino===CAN==>(oem TCU)<==>(722.6)

It should be possible. This is something that I hope to offer in the future.
You need to change some analog inputs into CAN messages for the tcu and then create a torque map for the engine to send to the tcu. You will need at a minimum wheel speed calculated from the rear wheels or a driveshaft speed sensor and then turned into rear wheel speeds from the traction control. Tps, and engine torque from engine management. I do not know what else will be needed other than shifter info. It will be trial and error until it is correct. The wheel speeds will have to calculated correctly to the final drive ratio for the tcu you are using.

I just found this thread last night. Very very interesting. I called the 425 number a couple posts about this left a message. But this thread is like 5 or 6 years old. Not sure if this is a valid number or not. Hope to pursue this further.

whipplem104 is quite helpful on this product. I am (slowly) installing it in a project car (doing the wiring up now - 1991 r129 + 1993 om602 + 2003 722.6). I am fortunate that he is just a few towns over from me.

I spoke with him yesterday. Very helpful. I think he has everything I will need and parts and information.