1978 450SLC Super beater/lemons race car - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Frank Reiner · #61 09-05-2016, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

does anyone have a w123 or 107 with the annular axles(six bolt style) to mesure the distance between mounting flanges on the differential? i measured a 560sl but they have larger axles so the width may be different.

W123s were equipped only with 185mm ring gear center sections. 185s were also used in W114/115s, and 6 cyl. W116/126s
R/C107s with V8s were equipped with 210mm ring gear center sections, and the 6 cyl. 107s (280SL) had 185mm ring gears. The housings for the 210s are wider than those for the 185s.

If you are dealing with V8 cars, the center sections are all the same width for 380s, 450s, 500s, and 560s. The inboard stub axles from the 210mm center sections for the annular CVs can be installed in any 210mm center.

rwd4evr · #62 09-05-2016, 02:36 PM

Ok. So here is what I've figured, correct me if I'm wrong. The 280slc and 450slc plus all the w123's use the same axle with the optional annular inner joint. I'm assuming these are all the 94mm bolt circle joints? This means that the 210mm and 185mm use the same inner stub axle? If the 210 is wider than the 185 and the same axles are used then there is a little wiggle room as far as the exact width of the rear diff from the gto must be? The inner stub really doesn't matter since I would be using the gto part but it would for measuring and setting up a welding jig for the subframe so it sits exactly in the same place as stock.

I don't have a lot of experience with cv joints, but I figure as long as they don't bottom out (become fully compressed) at any point through the suspension travel they will be ok? I haven't gotten the measurement yet but im 99% sure the gto diff is a little wider. If it's narrower it could pull the joint apart and do bad things I guess. So what I'm asking is how much travel do I have to play with?

And also why does rock auto have both 24 13/16" and 26 1/16" fully compressed length axles listed? They list as fitting left or right.(i just noticed a 300sel cross reference for the longer axle too)

If I can make this work with all stock parts and a little cut and weld on the subframe it would be huge for all the r/c107 w123 w114 and the other diagonal swing axle car modifiers. It's looking very feasible.

Frank Reiner · #63 09-05-2016, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

Ok. So here is what I've figured, correct me if I'm wrong. The 280slc and 450slc plus all the w123's use the same axle with the optional annular inner joint.

450slc>210mm center section

280slc & W123>185mm center section

Therefore, not the same center section, stub axles, or half shafts.

rwd4evr · #64 09-05-2016, 03:47 PM

I know they are different center sizes but all the parts sites show the same axle for 450slc and 300d. These are the homokinetic joints but you can put annular axles in place of the homokinetic ones. Are all these sites really wrong? Parts geek, rock auto and listings for axles on eBay? I'm not doubting you but are you sure the stub axles are different for the two different size center sections? Anther odd thing I found is the flex disc is listed as the smaller 110mm one for all the pre85 v8 cars and larger 129mm for diesel. I have to take some cars apart here I guess.

rwd4evr · #65 09-05-2016, 06:45 PM

This is from rock autos link to a1 cardone fitment guide. I'm pretty certain it would say 280slc also if they sold them here.

rwd4evr · #66 09-05-2016, 06:51 PM

Plus all the w114/115 cars. It's a1 cardone 609022.

rwd4evr · #67 09-05-2016, 11:17 PM

After more epc cross referencing, it does in fact appear that just about every parts supplier is wrong about the axle fitment. Epc says w115 use the axles from the v8 cars but it contradicts itself. I belive that you are correct frank and that the v8 cars use the larger cv and all the six cars use the smaller 94mm one, which is the same as the gto(and porshe 930 cv that alot of big power sand cars run). This will work ok though.

I will have to put one of my six cylinder differentials in the subframe to be modified, with a set of annular stub axles installed. then bolt the stub axle flanges to a jig attached to the subframe by the inner control arm mounts and drill and tap some other holes in the "legs" of the subframe to securely fix the flanges location. then bolt the gto diff in place by the flanges and set the pinion angle. once that is all set its just a matter of cutting and welding in 1/8" steel cut so it makes up the new mounting points. the subframe will most likely have to be trimmed a bit before the new one can sit where it needs to. then ill have a piece of steel bolted to the diff housing mount lugs and tack it in before removing the diff and making it all solid again. the jig would be self locating for future use that way.

I'm still waiting on measurements of the width and where the input flange will sit in relation to the axle line, but i think its going to work with minimal or no modification to the drive shaft and annular axles. the drive flange is the same as are the cv flanges.

rwd4evr · #68 09-07-2016, 02:58 AM

i got a measurement of approx 13.75 from one guy for gto differential width, id like to have an accurate one though. i got 10.5 inches for the 560sl diff. I really need a measurement for the 6cyl w114/123/r107 differential with the annular axle flanges in place. Im wondering if the homo kinetic axles can be disassembled and have the same splines as the annular axles for a possible shorter shaft option.

jdhill · #69 09-07-2016, 05:30 PM

This is what the 107 manual shows for the diff's.

rwd4evr · #70 09-07-2016, 06:22 PM

Thanks , good info. I'm glad I have a 81 slc for the drive shaft. What book is that from?

fonzi · #71 09-07-2016, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

Thanks , good info. I'm glad I have a 81 slc for the drive shaft. What book is that from?

That's actually a part I promised to hold onto for Kevin Kemper, but he hasn't made any mention of it recently. Definitely don't let that drive shaft go to the scrapper. V8 4 Speed auto SLC drive shave might be unique to the 380slc and more importantly the 500slc.

jdhill · #72 09-08-2016, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

Thanks , good info. I'm glad I have a 81 slc for the drive shaft. What book is that from?

MBz Service Manual, Chassis and Body, Model 107.

rwd4evr · #73 09-09-2016, 06:30 AM

I would really like to get my hands on whoever decided to mount the gas tank on studs instead of using bolts. There is a half inch of room to pick it up over and off of 3/4 inch long studs. I wrestled that fu<£er out to clean it and it's clean as a whistle. Rrrrrrrrrrrr.

97 SL320 · #74 09-09-2016, 05:36 PM

A thought on the inner CV attachment. You might be able to make / find spacers that have a small pattern for the diff and a large pattern for the CV. This could get you correct axle length and open the universe of parts.

If just a straight no pattern change spacer is needed, I'd still bolt to the diff then have a 2nd set of holes for the CV.

rwd4evr · #75 09-10-2016, 03:15 PM

The pattern is correct. The problem is the Mercedes part is only 10" wide and the gto is 13 3/4 or so. So it looks like I will have to look into getting axles shortened and resplined. Crap. I wondering if there is a non abs version out there with thinner flanges. The abs rings take up a good bit of space.

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