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  #1  
Old 08-02-2016, 05:39 PM
rwd4evr's Avatar
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1978 450SLC Super beater/lemons race car

I recently bought a '78 450 slc with a 4speed manual transmission conversion. i got it running but have to replace the clutch hydraulics to see if the trans is ok. Its just running on a kjet rig i built to run it separate from the questionable fuel tank. It wants to go if you hit the key in first so thats a good sign. body is rough but savable for my purpose.

Im selling the euro headlights and pretty much everything besides the running gear and maybe wipers. I have a couple other parts cars i so i have tons of parts to use for this build. it has good blue console(broken top bar though) and some good door panel/rear side panels. let me know if you need stuff.

My plan is to strip it down to bare necessities to get it as light as possible, remove all the interior parts,dash, headliner, every thing that isn't making it street legal and drive-able is gone.ill keep enough of the vent system for some heat and defrost capabilities. i have some roller window doors on another car ill use and wil probably put a lexan fixed rear window in the rear roll up spot. do some rust repair and get some body work practice with patch panels from the rusty in different spots jewels i have.

The car was spun out into something and broke a wheel and bent the rear control arm im pretty sure, the subframe is getting changed just in case its tweaked .I have a euro 280SLC with a 3.46 rear diff and subframe to use for better acceleration. i have anti squat and 2.46 lsd from a 560sl but i want to know if i can put the lsd carrier with the 3.46 gears back in the slc case? i know that Chevy rear axles and alot of others have separations in the gear ratio a particular gear carrier wil work with, 2.73-3.23 for example. Are the carriers any different throughout the ratios? They are all the 210 mm ring gear im pretty sure.

I plan on driving it on the street for a while probably deliver pizza in it sometimes and beating on it in general for fun and to break any thing that wants to break. also to see if i like the way it handles and modify/prepare the suspension for track use. I've never driven a slc hard even though i have three of them. My goal is to get it down to 2500 pounds or so, and really less but i think that's a little ambitious. i have an aluminum hood too.it will be lowered a bit but not enough to screw with the suspension geometry and camber curve. I'm hoping one spring coil cut will do the trick.

I also have 2 5.6 late m117 motors that i could swap the heads on to the 4.5 iron block i think but i cant afford to lose compression. Ive read they flow way better. has anyone done this? . does any one have cam specs for the different m117/116 engines? i have bunches to chose from for the best performance.

Since pretty much all of the cars will have more than paid for them selves in parts sales it will be completely legal for 24 hours of lemons racing. So, i may be looking for other benz addicts that can drive and turn wrenches for a team. i've got a big warehouse/shop full of cars and tools and want to build a good fun street beater/track day/lemons race car from a vintage benz. The only lemons r/c107 ever run was smallblock chevy powered and automatic trans, thats not right.


The first pic is what she will be except no shiny paint or comfy stylish interior. second is the rear subframe and roll up window door donor and the third one is the beauty()in all her glory. Chime in if you have any info that may be useful or ideas about suspension and engine tuning, but remember it's a car that sat languishing and being a mouse house for 7-10 years and was already converted from stock, so don't give me a bunch of "your ruining that car" crap please. All the cars any parts are coming from would still be mouse houses or crushed if Fonzi didn't find them and one of us bought them.
Attached Thumbnails
1978 450SLC Super beater/lemons race car-image.jpg   1978 450SLC Super beater/lemons race car-fullsizerender%5B1%5D.jpg   1978 450SLC Super beater/lemons race car-4spd-driver.jpg   1978 450SLC Super beater/lemons race car-slc-passenger.jpg   1978 450SLC Super beater/lemons race car-slc-4spd-fr.jpg  


Last edited by rwd4evr; 08-03-2016 at 02:06 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2016, 02:08 AM
rwd4evr's Avatar
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Most of that will just buff right out!!Some one that owned it before the guy I got it from did the 4 speed conversion. We're assuming 350slc or Sl parts were used. I need to replace the slave cylinder, the one listed for v8 cars is 125$ or around there but I can't find any difference in the one from every 4speed diesel or gas 70s cars. Same bore and bolt pattern but 25$ instead. Maybe pushrod or piston difference but I should be able to use my parts in a newly rebuilt casting. Mine looks rough but I have saved them with jb weld and a wheel cylinder hone. . The guy I bought it from never drove it. Saw it driven around the yard once he says. It all looked factory. I think it was some ones project beater until he crashed it. The driver side is torn up about guardrail height and the passenger control arm is way bent. I think it went for quite a ride! The rear wheel is so out of whack it chewed off the snow tire rollers I towed it on, surprised it didn't wag all over the place on the dolly. The guy who sold it to me was told the battery was dead and was too expensive to replace. Funny that it holds a charge perfectly and looks new after sitting long enough to fill the glove box and rockers with fluffy mouse house stuffing. I yanked the interior with fonzi's help and pressure washed the inside out!! It was a stinker. Has almost brand new looking stainless exhaust. The catalytic converter will probably go bye bye after I antique tag it and it won't have to pass inspection ever again.
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2016, 10:58 AM
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Does this count as driving an SLC?

https://youtu.be/tpXLc47k83Y

I know you've driven the 1979 450sl "fireball", but I can't remember if you've driven any other 107s. My slc vert? My 280sl? Have you?
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Past mb: '73 450sl, '81 280slc stick, '71 250, '72 250c, '70 250c, '79 280sl, '73 450sl, parted: '75 240d stick, '69 280s, '73 450slc, '72 450sl,
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  #4  
Old 08-04-2016, 08:18 PM
rwd4evr's Avatar
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Not really. Maybe moved them, but not like I stole,errr, owned them. Well same difference really.
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  #5  
Old 08-20-2016, 02:33 AM
GGR GGR is offline
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If one of your 560 long blocks is good it will be much less work to adapt the four speed to a 5.6L motor than 5.6L heads onto a 4.5L short block. Put the 450 kjet and ignition and you will be with a bulletproof combo with 1L more displacement and much weight saved thanks to the aluminum block.
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2016, 04:58 AM
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Hi GGR! What about connecting a 4-Speed to a 560 engine? Isn't there an issue with the different bolt patterns for the alloy blocks (that don't use an adapter plate, like the 450slc 5.0 and iron blocks).

We were in the warehouse tonight looking at all the motors we got that at least spark. We looked at the 3.5 4-Speed 350sl and said this one is more powerful than all the others (but I think we forgot about the 560sl cars and the m119 too).

If you can put the 4-Speed manual trans on a 5.6, what's to stop you from using it on a m119? I suspect a 5.0 m119 would tear it apart.
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Past mb: '73 450sl, '81 280slc stick, '71 250, '72 250c, '70 250c, '79 280sl, '73 450sl, parted: '75 240d stick, '69 280s, '73 450slc, '72 450sl,
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2016, 05:05 AM
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that would be great but i don't think my manual flywheel will fit in the aluminum block rear section. the auto ring gear/flexplate is considerably smaller. im really just looking for free upgrades with stuff i have. from what ive been learning from Tony h the 560 cam has more lift but retarded timing. so i think early 4.5 cams and exauhst work will be my best power increase. i would love some euro 5.0 cams if someone has a pair.
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Old 08-20-2016, 05:57 AM
GGR GGR is offline
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Your flywheel will fit the 560 Motor. You will need to rework a bit the 450 intermediate plate to fit it on the 560 motor, it has been done, and it is certainly much less work than adapting 560 heads on a 450 motor. See here:

560SL Manual transmission conversion, Crank position sensor Help? - Mercedes-Benz Forum

You can do the same with the M119. the challenge will be the crank sensor. You may then fit a 560 timing cover which will allow you to fit a 450 or 500 ignition distributor so that you can get rid of the sensor and all other electronics. Not sure the M119 will fit the r107 engine bay though.
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Old 08-20-2016, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGR View Post
Not sure the M119 will fit the r107 engine bay though.

Something to think about if there are space limitations. Since the car is getting a roll cage, one could extend tubes from the top of the firewall to the front bumper area then cut out the inner fenders.
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Old 08-20-2016, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
Something to think about if there are space limitations. Since the car is getting a roll cage, one could extend tubes from the top of the firewall to the front bumper area then cut out the inner fenders.


I thought the space limitation was where the exhaust manifolds come down onto the frame rails.

I did see a picture of an m119 stuffed into a 107 before.

Longer term, we've got a decent looking w108 SEL that I'd love to put an m119 into. If a manual trans from a 3.5 could be adapted to fit a m119, I'm thinking that a "red pig" tribute with an m119 and manual trans would be the end game. The SLC beater would probably just be part of the journey there. The blue manual trans SLC looks to me kind of like a car that's ready for the demolition derby. I keep bringing up to Jason that he should just use the blue SLC to verify the drivetrain before putting it into another vehicle. I also don't think the 4.5 is anything to be married to. The 4.5 in the SLC would be perfect to put into the 78 450sl we bought a few months back. The car is rusty, but looks good and has gas in the oil and a busted passenger manifold. It creates fireballs at the busted exhaust manifold. The interior is decent other than the heavily cracked dash. It could make a nice driver until the wheels fall off it.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r-c107-sl-slc-class/2644929-bought-another-junker-th.html

But I've got a 350sl 4-Speed in the shop too. So it's not like there's only one manual trans we have to work with. There's also an m110 4-Speed out of a w126 sedan, and two fintails. Heck, if really digging into it, I had most pieces from a 1983 280sl 5-Speed too, but Nobby took that and the differential to Barrie Ontario, and then removed the tailcone to sent to Dennis Ca-280sl in California, maybe Florida now. There just might be parts to work with there. Still, of probably all those transmissions, I'm assuming only the 3.5 transmission is durable enough for any v8.

Oh, I've also got an overdrive getrag 265 on the shelf at home. I bought that, and also the 1972 350sl 4-Speed with the thoughts of putting a manual trans in my 1978 450slc 5.0 custom convertible, somethings pretty unlikely to ever happen. But maybe, just maybe.
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Past mb: '73 450sl, '81 280slc stick, '71 250, '72 250c, '70 250c, '79 280sl, '73 450sl, parted: '75 240d stick, '69 280s, '73 450slc, '72 450sl,
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  #11  
Old 08-20-2016, 12:35 PM
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I don't know of the specific obstruction. Adding tubes to the front and other places would allow cutting / boxing of the frame rails to clear manifolds.
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:38 PM
GGR GGR is offline
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I'm positive the m119 won't fit in between the two chassis rails of the W108, unless you modify them heavily. I took measurements as I was considering a transplant in my W111 Coupe. In the end I stuck with the M117.
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:56 PM
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I just confirmed something I had suspected, the early 5-spd, 717.000, will bolt to the four speed bell housing. Looks a little weird with the 2 extra bolt holes but it works. Talking M110 here.
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Old 08-20-2016, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
I don't know of the specific obstruction. Adding tubes to the front and other places would allow cutting / boxing of the frame rails to clear manifolds.
There is an "Engine Masters" episode on the Motor Trend channel on YouTube where they dented an engines exhaust manifold to clear the steering box, a common problem, and it actually gained HP. They then dented the crap out of both manifolds and the engine never lost power. Another busted myth.
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  #15  
Old 08-20-2016, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGR View Post
I'm positive the m119 won't fit in between the two chassis rails of the W108, unless you modify them heavily. I took measurements as I was considering a transplant in my W111 Coupe. In the end I stuck with the M117.


https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/1974-mercedes-280se-45-making-the-luxurious-uncomf/107877/page2/

If he just used the oil pan from an r129 he probably wouldn't have to do all that subframe hacking and welding.
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Past mb: '73 450sl, '81 280slc stick, '71 250, '72 250c, '70 250c, '79 280sl, '73 450sl, parted: '75 240d stick, '69 280s, '73 450slc, '72 450sl,
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