M152 M157 for swap - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Roncallo · #1 06-09-2018, 07:16 AM

Hello there.

Its been a long time since I built a car. Too long. I'm interested in a new engine alternatives for a 107. I'm trying to do some research on alternative engines and not coming up with much on the M152 or M157. Does anyone have any experience with these.

The M152 appears to be favorable at this point because it has as much power as I would care to put into a 107 without significant mods to the diff and rear axels. It is also normally aspirated meaning likely easier to install.

My understanding is that the M152 has variable displacement technology. But it was only used for about 4 years in the SLK. Was this engine a complete failure or whats the story.

The M152 appears to have been only made with a rear sump. Does anyone know if the sumps and oil pickups from the M157 will fit on the M152 engine?

whipplem104 · #2 06-09-2018, 11:01 AM

Honestly the new stuff is great for power vs size. But I would not use them. They are horrible to work on and expensive. And you have to have a lot of equipment to do keys and what not to be able to make new keys. People pretty much just abandon the cars after they are around 100k because of maintenance costs. Direct injection motors have terrible carbon build up issues. I am not speaking directly about the m152 but in general. They leak a bit. It is common to have multi thousand dollar repair bills on smallish issues just because of the labor to remove stuff to get to what you want to fix. Also everything in a new car is TRP. I mean every computer. So engine, transmission, ignition, lights, cluster. And when you get used stuff you have to have it virginized and then coded and that has to be done through Mercedes online. Which pretty much means at the dealership.
I am just saying do your do diligence on the product before really deciding to go this route.
The good news is that you should be able to just use the engine and trans by themselvles. You should not need ABS etc. The 722.9 has output speed sensor. So it works by itself. You will loose some mode options though without it.

Roncallo · #3 06-09-2018, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whipplem104

Honestly the new stuff is great for power vs size. But I would not use them. They are horrible to work on and expensive. And you have to have a lot of equipment to do keys and what not to be able to make new keys. People pretty much just abandon the cars after they are around 100k because of maintenance costs. Direct injection motors have terrible carbon build up issues. I am not speaking directly about the m152 but in general. They leak a bit. It is common to have multi thousand dollar repair bills on smallish issues just because of the labor to remove stuff to get to what you want to fix. Also everything in a new car is TRP. I mean every computer. So engine, transmission, ignition, lights, cluster. And when you get used stuff you have to have it virginized and then coded and that has to be done through Mercedes online. Which pretty much means at the dealership.
I am just saying do your do diligence on the product before really deciding to go this route.
The good news is that you should be able to just use the engine and trans by themselvles. You should not need ABS etc. The 722.9 has output speed sensor. So it works by itself. You will loose some mode options though without it.

Thanks for the reply. That's the kind of info I'm looking for and kind of what I expected.

I know you and me have done back and forth about OE vs aftermarket systems and the pros and cons. I don't see much of a way out for the newer engine trans combos than to go OE, which once again means taking the whole car and transplanting all systems as I did with the M120. But that looks like child's play compared to the new engines. At least this time I know what I'm about to step in.

For the moment I have an M113 I'd like to fit in as that represents something doable by most of the people on this forum, and there is the option of choosing OE or aftermarket and even supercharged versions.

I am currently designing the subframe modeled after the one I did for the V12 and I believe the opportunity is there to fit all the newer engines with one frame based on R129 mounting points. So I am looking into sizing the M152, M157 and M278 as well as the M120 and M113. And possibly some 6 cyl variants

It may be that I have to be the guy that develops engine management systems for these engines for the reality of these becoming a practical swap is to come to fruition. But I expect to retire in about 2 years or so, so who knows.

The new direct injection engines are the future

The M152 seams particularly intriguing with its variable displacement technology, but I see its been discontinued. Was it a huge failure like the 70's Cadillac attempt?

whipplem104 · #4 06-11-2018, 12:34 AM

I really do not know why they changed engines so fast. Probably cost or emissions or marketing.
Actually aftermarket fuel injection for direct injection is readily available but very expensive. And really hard to set up from scratch. Really you are looking at around 10-15k to have an engine that starts. This is why I went with OE stuff on my CDI swap. I spent around 5k to get stuff to work with the factory computers and work out what I needed. And it is OE and starts and runs like OE. Thats millions of dollars of tuning.
The key is getting rid of the stuff you do not want or need and figuring out how to make the remaining items happy so they work like they are supposed to. I do this for myself and customers. It is just expensive to do a one off. And there is no market. I have proven that. I can run a dozen or so Mercedes Engines with factory computers in a standalone environment. ECU, TCU, shifter. Ignition and keys. Everything from the om648 to a m275. I mean really 55k and vv12tt that work and drive factory and not one single person has been interested. Because it costs more than 10.00. But man 20-30k to put a ls motor or a cummins in a truck and you can stay as busy as you want.

Go for it. I say. Its only money and time.

Roncallo · #5 06-11-2018, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whipplem104

I really do not know why they changed engines so fast. Probably cost or emissions or marketing.
Actually aftermarket fuel injection for direct injection is readily available but very expensive. And really hard to set up from scratch. Really you are looking at around 10-15k to have an engine that starts. This is why I went with OE stuff on my CDI swap. I spent around 5k to get stuff to work with the factory computers and work out what I needed. And it is OE and starts and runs like OE. Thats millions of dollars of tuning.
The key is getting rid of the stuff you do not want or need and figuring out how to make the remaining items happy so they work like they are supposed to. I do this for myself and customers. It is just expensive to do a one off. And there is no market. I have proven that. I can run a dozen or so Mercedes Engines with factory computers in a standalone environment. ECU, TCU, shifter. Ignition and keys. Everything from the om648 to a m275. I mean really 55k and vv12tt that work and drive factory and not one single person has been interested. Because it costs more than 10.00. But man 20-30k to put a ls motor or a cummins in a truck and you can stay as busy as you want.

Go for it. I say. Its only money and time.

I certainly agree with that. But at this time I am reaching an age where I no longer have to make money. But at the same time I cant loose any money either. I have had some reasonable offers on my V12 107 at least enough to make a profit but certainly not enough to quite my day job.