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  #1  
Old 06-19-2018, 05:39 PM
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722.6 for m104

https://m.ebay.com/itm/AUTOMATIC-210-TYPE-AUTOMATIC-E320-722-605-THRU-7-21-96-FITS-MERCEDES-C-CLASS/132168430765?hash=item1ec5da34ad:g:2TIAAOSws0JaZ4rW

Starting to look for a 722.6 for my turbo m104 build. How's the price on this one? I will be upgrading the trans to hold as much power as possible, should I stay away from high mileage?

Any better ideas on trans? Place to buy? Should I get a v12/amg model trans and find m104 bellhousing? Or easier to get m104 722.6 and replace hard parts/planetaries with v12 parts?

Thanks for all your help guys
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2018, 07:51 PM
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Whipple104 is the 722.6 expert around here, but here's what I know. Get a later trans and put the 104 bellhousing on it. There was an upgrade around 01,or 02 that keeps K2 from exploding. There are two different sets of gear ratios depending on if it was from behind a 4 / 6 compared to an 8 / 12. Stock management will not tolerate mixing and matching planetaries between the two versions. There is an extra beefy version from behind the ttV12 and 113K but its likely overkill unless you're close to 1000hp. IIRC, Whipple104 pushes somewhere between 400-500hp though bone stock 4cyl versions without issue. I built a beefy 722.6 for my coupe and stuffed it full of clutches. The biggest thing I accomplished doing it was making it difficult to tune for smooth shifts, especially the 1-2. On the up side I wouldn't be able to break it with triple the HP I currently have.
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90 300TE 4-M

Turbo 103, T3/T04E 50 trim
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A2W I/C, 40 LB/HR
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3" Exh, AEM W/B O2
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3.07 diffs, 1st Gear Start

90 300CE 104.980
Milled & ported head, 10.3:1 compression
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PCS TCM2000 running 722.6 trans, 600W PWM fan, water injection
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2018, 09:27 PM
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Get a v8 transmission and swap bellhousing and tq converter. I sell valve bodies that will take a stock v8 trans to more power than you will ever make reliably. And that one you have listed is a v6 trans you need an inline one to start from. Just for the converter and bellhousing. Think C230k.
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  #4  
Old 06-19-2018, 10:06 PM
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Also look at car-part.com for a trans. Or any other part found at an auto salvage yard. )
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  #5  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:42 PM
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How about the trans from dodge/Chrysler SRT vehicles? Any difference in the case, gearing, etc.?
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  #6  
Old 06-21-2018, 09:38 AM
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Everything inside is the same except the conductor plate. The case is totally different. You can swap the bellhousing to one and they accept a cable drive to the shifter. You should be able to swap the lever to put a rod on from a benz though. But you would have problems with getting a dipstick to work.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin300sl View Post
How about the trans from dodge/Chrysler SRT vehicles? Any difference in the case, gearing, etc.?
The SRT is more like an AMG spec. From what I've found, there are Chrysler specific ratios that never found their way into a MB. If you are using an aftermarket controller, this won't be an issue.

It probably isn't worth chasing a SRT spec trans since you can build your own from parts.

The biggest issue is if you increase power, the trans controller needs to know this to increase line pressure. Line pressure tracks expected engine power output, low pressure at light throttle so shifts at light throttle are not bumpy and higher pressure under high load.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:24 AM
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So there is no such thing as AMG spec. The ratios in the Dodge/mopar whatever are the same. Standard 5.7 and SRT transmissions are the same inside. Different flange and converter on some. I have had hundreds of them apart and rebuilt them and cross referenced every imaginable part number. I can tell you down to the most minute detail what is different.
And I am pretty sure he is swapping the transmission into a car that did not have one so he will be running an aftermarket controller for sure.
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Old 06-21-2018, 04:09 PM
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Whipple, any chance you can set me up with what I need? Trans, bellhousing, shifter, valve body, controller etc.? I can assemble or pay for assembly.
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  #10  
Old 06-21-2018, 04:24 PM
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Sure, Shoot me your email or email me. My contact info is in my sig.
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  #11  
Old 06-21-2018, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whipplem104 View Post
So there is no such thing as AMG spec. The ratios in the Dodge/mopar whatever are the same. Standard 5.7 and SRT transmissions are the same inside.
What about the mythical AMG blue top pressure solenoid?

Or the 97 AMG C36 that has a M104 with V8 gear ratios?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whipplem104 View Post
Different flange and converter on some. I have had hundreds of them apart and rebuilt them and cross referenced every imaginable part number. I can tell you down to the most minute detail what is different.

Attached files are:

The 2 MB ratios

Trans rebuilder parts list showing gear trains, 2 for Chrysler and 2 for MB , call outs 583 , 590 594 ( I'm ignoring the extra MB K2 bushing / needle bearing gear trains as the ratios are the same. )

2009 ATSG rebuilder book stating there are 4 ratios for the 722.6

I have not found what the Chrysler ratios are. The gear train tooth count is different between MB and Chrysler.

The 722.6 was also used in a Jaguar but not many cars / years but I'd expect them to use MB ratios.

As a side note, here is a vid of gear train power flow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQwN2-9mLME
Attached Thumbnails
722.6 for m104-ratios_mb.jpg   722.6 for m104-ratios_gear_train.jpg   722.6 for m104-ratios_atsg.jpg  
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  #12  
Old 06-21-2018, 06:56 PM
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Better view of Chrysler / MB gear train parts list. Page 539

http://www.kingomatic.com/King-O-Matic/media/KOM/catalogues/2014-AT-Catalog-Combined.pdf
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722.6 for m104-ratios_gear_train_02.jpg  
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  #13  
Old 06-22-2018, 12:36 AM
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I do not know what that document is showing but there are two ratio sets that I have ever seen or heard of the large and small nag. I have all the factory books from when I went to training on these at Mercedes as a Mercedes Master technician and as I said have had hundreds of these apart from every model. I also sell standalone tcus to people all over the world using different transmissions from different manufacturers and do support and the ratios have to be entered into the tcu to work and I have never run across any different one than the two I know of. Porsche, Jag, Chyrsler, Mercedes.
I can tell you from actual experience that the parts between manufacturers swap quite easily. So I am not sure what that is all showing. Mercedes had a tone of revisions over the years from early production on that have all sorts of different cuts and teeth counts and angles etc on the planetary gear sets but they all had the same ratios. Just revisions in design. THe later mercedes parts that they ended up with have the same teeth count, cut etc. But yes you cannot swap part of a gear set from an early Mercedes to a chrysler nor can you swap it to a later Mercedes trans. You have to buy all the pieces of that planetary and if it is really early you just need all the part inside because nothing fits. I have done this under warranty at the dealership on more than one occasion. You end up replacing most of the inside of the transmission because one part is bad and you cannot buy that part anymore and have to update half or the whole thing.
All the Chyrsler stuff I have seen which is just about every model there is including the wranglers, Jeep 5.7 cherokee, srt8 cherokee, 300c, charger, challenger in 5.7, 6.1, and 6.4 engine trims. If you order new planetary parts for either then you will get the same parts. Most of them will actually show up in a Mercedes box or bag that has then been stuffed inside a bag from Chrysler. I order a lot of them.
Yes there are blue top solenoids. They were used on AMG cars. They do very little to increase pressures and are a waste of money. I can go into really minute detail if you would like.
I have actually logged them and different valve bodies with pressure sensors on a test bench. I can also tell you what the amperage to pressure to temp curves are and how that effects the other pressures in the valve body and applied pressure to the clutches.
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  #14  
Old 06-22-2018, 12:39 AM
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I will say that you cannot swap all parts from large nag to small nag but some you can. Really it is just the rear planetary that is different. So you can change half the trans to convert one to the other. There are also different number of planet sets for larger and stronger. And finally the v12tt is different completely but it still used the exact same clutches and clutch counts. Same ratios though as all other large nag transmissions.
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