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  #1  
Old 06-22-2018, 03:02 AM
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WTF!?!?!?!? V8 4 speed converted 450slc trans shaft.

I blew out my clutch on my 450 SLC with a four-speed transmission. case number is 117-261-1401. All research I've done says that all older Mercedes use an 1 1/8" transmission shaft 10 spline clutch. The 300 D diesel transmission I have is a 1 1/8 10 spline. This for speed for my V8 car has a shaft that measures 1.06 outside of splines .722 iner part. All the v8 cars that have clutches listed on rock auto use 1 1/8" 10 spline. What The hell is going on here? I got a BMW clutch disk which is 1 1/8" 10 spline 240 mm disc and thought I was good and now I'm sitting here with my car torn apart and a different size ****ing transmission shift. Is there really an oddball V8 transmission it has a smaller shaft then at 240 D or 300 D?
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  #2  
Old 06-22-2018, 04:01 PM
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Arg. So the clutch comes up with part number ,Sachs 1861476432, as
21x26-10n "hub profile" so 21mm inner 26 outer 10 spline count. Only thing lister anywhere using this is some v8 r/c107 and w108/109. God damn it. 375-400$ for another stock disc I'll murder drifting. It actually broke the cage that retains the springs in the hub. I may be welding it up and getting it balanced if I have to.
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  #3  
Old 06-22-2018, 04:26 PM
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A common Ford spline is 1 1/16 - 10.
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  #4  
Old 06-22-2018, 05:36 PM
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Yeah. I have a ford t5 sitting there. It's not the same. The spline teeth are skinnier on the Mercedes. The Chevy/BMW 1 1/8" fits but loose. It's odd but the bigger BMW disk won't go on the 1 1/16" ford shaft either.
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  #5  
Old 06-23-2018, 11:05 PM
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The v8s with a stick of that era are very very rare, so getting parts for them and advice here will be difficult.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #6  
Old 06-24-2018, 04:16 AM
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I have four of them sitting here at my shop. This is just the first one I've had apart. I can't believe how stupid they are to make the most powerful sports(well sporting) car with a smaller input shaft and some oddball spline size that nothing else used. "Because Mercedes" is a phrase I've come to use a lot working on these cars. All this great engineering and technology for the time but you always find some incredibly stupid thing that just makes no sense and doesn't belong. Be it a screw where there should obviously be a hex head bolt or the dumb plastic bolts that hold some kick panels and of course sending every US delivery car with an automatic trans. I'm glad I'm a hot rodder and modifier at heart and can see past the mistakes that were made by Mercedes unlike many purists and not have a problem changing things. I'm not saying go hack up a 280se 3.5 convertible or some special valuable car, but if you have a decent old car and want to make it your own go ahead. Put a Chevy motor in it, lower it, lift it. Beat the snot out of it. They take it pretty well. One stupid clutch disc that should be $65 buck is $375 because they felt like changing what they have always used for no good reason. That's why I'm not a purist, Like Aufrect and Melcher. They also said FU I can improve that. Ok rant over.

If anyone is interested in a four speed conversion pm or email me. I've got a few and I'm working on a setup for alloy block manual trans conversions too. If you've never driven a manual transmission older Mercedes you really should. Even the U.S. V8 motors feel powerful. Such a shame they didn't put the 5 speed they had in all of them with a resonable rear end gear. With a 3.46 rear snd a .7 overdrive it runs on the highway like a 2.58 and still accelerates great below 40 mph. The autos are power robbers and no fun. Overly soft suspension and lame transmission makes everyone think a BMW is so much better, not so just tuned better. M119 and a ford 5 speed will fix my problems!
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  #7  
Old 06-24-2018, 09:35 AM
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You could always get your existing disc relined. This would be very easy if you could locate a new disc that could donate the lining.

As for the no manuals in the US. Dealers / factory are going to bring in cars that sell when new not cars that might sell on the used market.
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  #8  
Old 06-25-2018, 03:11 AM
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[QUOTE=97 SL320;3823793]You could always get your existing disc relined. This would be very easy if you could locate a new disc that could donate the lining.

Not so easy. The lining is actually fine. Most of the clutch is. The springs gave up and then the rivets that hold it all together let go. It seems to not enjoy my mastery of the clutch kick initiation. The BMW disc I bought actually has the identical lining and rivet pattern holding it to the disc center. Only difference is the sprung hub and splines. Oh and it's 500% more expensive to replace. I'm going to use the center and weld it up and balance it or machine it to be used in the BMW solid disc.
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  #9  
Old 06-25-2018, 03:17 AM
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One at time for some reason 😤
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  #10  
Old 06-25-2018, 03:20 AM
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You can see the three holes where the rivets were holding the outer cage that keeps the springs broke from in the first pic.
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  #11  
Old 06-25-2018, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post

As for the no manuals in the US. Dealers / factory are going to bring in cars that sell when new not cars that might sell on the used market.
No they brought in the most bloated overpriced cruisers that they assumed the fat lazy rich Americans wanted to drive. And mostly were correct because most buyers were fat lazy overly wealthy Americans. But the manual
Car would have sold just fine. Jags , BMW and Italians sold expensive manual
Cars no problem. The studebaker dealer partnership fiasco screwed it all up. Every one I own has military base stickers I think. Americans bought them and brought them home. U.S. Delivered cars were just fully optioned because they knew some dumb rich guy would buy it regardless of price or options because his wife thought it was cute or he had a small dick and it made him feel like a big shot, and it probably worked to get mad ass. Then it broke a couple times and it went to another guy who didn't know how to take care of it and the third guy that rigged it with band aids afraid of stealership prices until it died. Just look at how so many are just neglected and left to rot because something stupid broke. Then I buy them for 500-1000$ and sell parts and have fun with the rest. The best parts about it is I get a 40 year old car with a barely broken in engine with 110,000 on it and fully serviced with timing chain, Oilers and guides that was given up on for what I think was just a fuel Pressure regulator. Ready to be screamed to the moon like they were originally intended to be. Remember the m116 3.5 was a 6700 rpm manual trans banshee that made almost 5.0 mustang power. The people that weren't idiots that bought them cherished them and now those cars are going up in value fast. And they probably always wished it had a manual trans and a little bit sportier tuned suspension.
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  #12  
Old 06-25-2018, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
No they brought in the most bloated overpriced cruisers that they assumed the fat lazy rich Americans wanted to drive. And mostly were correct because most buyers were fat lazy overly wealthy Americans.
How many new MB have you bought? Have you used these past purchases as leverage to convince MB to bring in manual cars? Unless you are buying MB new, your complaints don't count in the eyes of MB or anyone else.

This would be like me complaining that a sports team needs to change their uniform design but I never attend a game or watch it on TV and only buy team merchandise at the second hand store.

Smaller MB sedans in Europe / ROW were utilitarian cars and likely to have a manual out of necessity due to low power engines and high fuel costs. What was the last Euro spec MB large sedan / SL to have a manual? Surely if Americans had cornered the market on stupid, Euro MB manual cars would be more common that auto cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
But the manual Car would have sold just fine. Jags , BMW and Italians sold expensive manual
I'm pretty sure the last Jag to have a manual trans was the E type , the XJS might have had a manual option but I doubt it.

BMW has always been a more sporting brand ( A Germanic Mustang ) so manuals would be more common but for anything much past the 2002 or 318i I'd think autos are the norm.

Most Italian cars brought to the US were likely to be more sporting ( like a Triumph Spitifre is ) but anything more like a Maserati Quattroporte was likely to be a auto.

Granted MB did offer a manual in the 89 or 90 300SL R129 but it sold poorly,( something like sub 300 cars poorly ) why did it sell poorly?

Lets look at American cars, Auto trans Mustangs and Camaros far out number the manual cars. Why is that? Ordering a US car to spec isn't as time consuming as one that comes over on the boat so " it isn't on the dealers lot" can't be used as an excuse.

You would think that a domestic sporting car would be more likely to have a manual than a weighty R107 / R129 or a S class sedan but that isn't the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
Cars no problem. The studebaker dealer partnership fiasco screwed it all up.
How? It gave MB a foothold in the US and seemed to work out OK for MB but not so much for Studebaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
Every one I own has military base stickers I think. Americans bought them and brought them home.
Civilians can work on a mil base so they might have not been " brought home ". Besides, if you live near a mil base, any car is more likely to have a mil base sticker.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
U.S. Delivered cars were just fully optioned because they knew some dumb rich guy would buy it regardless of price or options because his wife thought it was cute or he had a small dick and it made him feel like a big shot, and it probably worked to get mad ass. Then it broke a couple times and it went to another guy who didn't know how to take care of it and the third guy that rigged it with band aids afraid of stealership prices until it died. Just look at how so many are just neglected and left to rot because something stupid broke.
This large paragraph sounds like it is coming from a " screw everyone hat on sideways " ricer with a fart can , no springs , drug addict girl friend and a minimum wage no skill job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
Then I buy them for 500-1000$ and sell parts and have fun with the rest.
They are cheap because the market is very small and no one wants them.
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  #13  
Old 06-25-2018, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
You can see the three holes where the rivets were holding the outer cage that keeps the springs broke from in the first pic.
I have a way to fix this, I've done it before but your post 11 rant saps my motivation.
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  #14  
Old 06-26-2018, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
Then I buy them for 500-1000$ and sell parts and have fun with the rest.
"They are cheap because the market is very small and no one wants them."

You couldn't possibly be more wrong on that so I'll address that first. The reason they are cheap is because they are title-less rust buckets that someone let Rot into the ground. Are you insinuating that a U.S.g spec 450sl of any year is more sought after or valuable than a euro 350sl manual trans car in the same condition? Let me ask you, how many used vintage Mercedes have you bought or own. And I'm not talking about your SL320. Not really vintage. Just old-ish. I've got somewhere in the 30's at my shop.

Related to that car, you mentioned the 300sl. in 89(r107) the 300sl
Was euro only. The 1990 r129 was an underpowered 6 cyl in a 4500+ pound whale. if they had a m119 or m120 powered manual trans car that would have been great and I think would have sold. Who knows though.

glad to hear your opinion on there's things, the thing is I'm talking about car sales from 74-say 85 or so. So no I never bought any new Mercedes when I was pre born or 9 years old. Comparing mustangs and camaros is laughable since they didn't really turn, plus the manuals in later cars that did handle somewhat were weak and broke drag racing, which was what they did primarily.

The last s class with a manual before modern cars was a 6cyl w140 but I'm takling pre multi link rear suspension cars. I don't care for or deal in them. A w116 350se four speed is probably the most valuable besides a 6.9 but I'd take a 350se. I honestly don't know if there were any 350se/sel w126 with a four speed but a 280se 4speed is a great driver and is everybit as fast as a U.S. 450se plus not bloated and pillow like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
Every one I own has military base stickers I think. Americans bought them and brought them home.
Civilians can work on a mil base so they might have not been " brought home ". Besides, if you live near a mil base, any car is more likely to have a mil base sticker.

I'm
Not talking about US
military bases I'm talking U.S. bases in Europe. Civilian or non is irrelevant. They are brought home by military personnel. Trust me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
U.S. Delivered cars were just fully optioned because they knew some dumb rich guy would buy it regardless of price or options because his wife thought it was cute or he had a small dick and it made him feel like a big shot, and it probably worked to get mad ass. Then it broke a couple times and it went to another guy who didn't know how to take care of it and the third guy that rigged it with band aids afraid of stealership prices until it died. Just look at how so many are just neglected and left to rot because something stupid broke.
This large paragraph sounds like it is coming from a " screw everyone hat on sideways " ricer with a fart can , no springs , drug addict girl friend and a minimum wage no skill job.

That is ****ing funny. I laughed about this for awile while I was fabricating a removable radiator support for my drift car I built. In my 4500sq ft shop. I'll not be seen dead in a sideways hat, and I do love rear drive Japanese cars but I prefer a resonator and no muffler. No 5" soup can tailpipe over here. I'll admit to cut springs in my 450slc but adjustable spring perches I'm fitting are coming soon. I don't do drugs or **** skanky drug addicts let alone spend my life with them and I Make plenty of money as a heavy equipment mechanic (self taught too). Plus my Mercedes parts sales is nice too.


Sorry if the fat lazy American in bloated automatic sl's comments got you all upset.
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  #15  
Old 06-26-2018, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
I have a way to fix this, I've done it before but your post 11 rant saps my motivation.
Thanks anyway, but I very rarely need anyone's help fixing things. I was just looking for someone who had seen this oddball trans shaft too. Can you weld up the broken spring and recoil the destroyed larger of the six for me out of curiosity? Or were you saying it can be riveted back together with a bunch of mangled parts?
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