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#16
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I'm getting confusing results on EPC with this
According to the New Improved EPC 90 300CE was equipped with 3.27 gearset P/N 126 350 24 39 using the P/N 140 350 27 23 carrier. 91 300CE was equipped with 3.06 gearset P/N 126 350 28 39 using the P/N 126 350 09 23 carrier. The problem is that both those carrier part numbers cross to early 107/116 cars which are known to be 185mm gearsets. But as far as I know the 3.06 gearset was only available in the 210mm size and the 185 size used a 3.07 gearset. So I cant figure out what is up with that and I have seen many mistakes in the new EPC. To make maters worse there is another 210mm size diff, the 1.4 liter diff used on later 129's and 140's that do not use anything in common with the later 126 style 210mm, 1.3 liter diff. So this needs more investigation but thank you. Do both these cars have LSD?
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To see my 129 parts for sale visit: http://stores.ebay.com/The-Mercedes-SL-Store John Roncallo |
#17
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As far as I am concerned the only thing this style of diff is good for is getting you out of the snow or straight line acceleration. It does that very well with worn clutches or not with the exception of black ice. Putting spring pressure on those clutches at all times would have the effect of wearing out the clutches at an accelerated rate. If you need a diff for going around corners with one wheel in the air, than this is not the diff to use at all, or to waste any time to modify it into one.
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To see my 129 parts for sale visit: http://stores.ebay.com/The-Mercedes-SL-Store John Roncallo |
#18
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See my frustrations with trying to do this in my last post. The new EPC is not as user friendly at doing this as the older version.
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To see my 129 parts for sale visit: http://stores.ebay.com/The-Mercedes-SL-Store John Roncallo |
#19
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If I'm going to go through the effort to put a LSD in, I want something with a decent amount of bias.
With a worn clutch pack, you end up with what amounts to a pretty low torque viscous clutch. This type of clutch is dependent on oil thickness and will get looser with thin / hot oil. Does the manual give a breakaway torque? Comparing this to other brands of diffs would give a good comparison. I'm really thinking the viscous clutch action was the intent of this diff rather than a traditional clutch diff given your does not have any preload springs. Also, a traditional LSD with clutches behind the side gears, has higher breakaway under load due to the spyder hears forcing the side gears outward. This is a feature the MB diff does not have. The MB has a constant level of torque bias where as a traditional diff has increasing bias under load. |
#20
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Quote:
Quote:
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If you want to put a spring pack on your clutches just buy a phantom grip and put it in with the clutches.
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To see my 129 parts for sale visit: http://stores.ebay.com/The-Mercedes-SL-Store John Roncallo |
#21
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Do you have a pic of the actual diff with clutches installed? My post 5 asked if the clutches were internal to the diff ( where the ring gear bolts on ) / behind the side gears or if concentric to the axle flanges. The yellow part in your post 6 lead me to believe it was concentric to the axle flanges since it does not show side gear teeth.
If internal to the diff like a USA built brand, the wedging action of the side and spyder gears while under power forces the clutches to compress. Take a shim / plate out and rotate the diff while holding both axle flanges. In this case, preload only gives some sort of initial torque bias. If your diff is made this way, installing a spring block would solve the problem. See post 1 here https://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/396681-lsd-conversion-kit.html This spring block is what most USA brand diffs use for preload. If the clutches are outside the diff with some sort of way to engage the diff and axle flange, this would be a constant torque system. |
#22
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Those who are not familiar with the specifics of the MB LSD should do their homework BEFORE coming to class.
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#23
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The new EPC is utter garbage. Neither CE has LSD. Both are the larger diff.
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90 300TE 4-M Turbo 103, T3/T04E 50 trim T04B cover .60 AR Stage 3 turbine .63 AR A2W I/C, 40 LB/HR MS2E, 60-2 Direct Coil Control 3" Exh, AEM W/B O2 Underdrive Alt. and P/S Pulleys, Vented Rear Discs, .034 Booster. 3.07 diffs 1st Gear Start 90 300CE 104.980 Milled & ported head, 10.3:1 compression 197° intake cam w/20° advancer Tuned CIS ECU 4° ignition advance PCS TCM2000, built 722.6 600W networked suction fan Sportline sway bars V8 rear subframe, Quaife ATB 3.06 diff |
#24
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The yellow piece is a side gear modeled without the teeth.
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To see my 129 parts for sale visit: http://stores.ebay.com/The-Mercedes-SL-Store John Roncallo |
#25
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So if that is true. I might be interested in your 91 differential if you still have it. Preferably if you could carefully remove the ring and pinion for shipping or at least the carrier ring and pinion.
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To see my 129 parts for sale visit: http://stores.ebay.com/The-Mercedes-SL-Store John Roncallo |
#26
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Here is some file info that may be of some use:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/diesel-discussion/148188d1529372759-1987-300td-5-speed-conversion-torque-settings-mercedes-differentials.pdf |
#27
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Hey Frank, those that can't make the effort to research a simple part like a clutch disc, should not work on cars nor claim to be a MB "expert". My body of knowledge / skill stretches beyond the MB world and far beyond the automotive world in general so stuff it. https://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/396987-clutch-disc-search.html Quote:
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#28
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What this boils down to is MB apparently does not want much / any limited slip action at light loads. This prevents judder / squawk at low speeds / tight turns. When you are applying a load, the side gears are forced outwards by the spyder gears compressing the clutch pack. This is why a " loose " clutch pack still works. Rather than go through the mess of shimming the diff and if you can tolerate the slight chance of slight judder / squawk at low speeds / tight turns, use the spring block someone else posted in https://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/396681-lsd-conversion-kit.html Install this and you never need to shim the diff again as it will now be like a USA type LSD. You can even tune breakaway by changing springs. They likely use readily available stamping die springs. Using LSD rated oil or the friction modifier additive takes any judder / squawk to zero. A concern on the clutch plates if they are really brass / bronze. EP oil ( Extreme Pressure ) is generally corrosive to brass / bronze , the sulfur leaches out the soft alloying metals leaving you with porous copper. I wonder what the plate lining really is. Do you have access to an X ray material ID gun? At old work they would test all incoming material ( aluminum / copper / critical steel ) to make sure it was up to spec. I think this is the one they had. https://www.bruker.com/products/x-ray-diffraction-and-elemental-analysis/handheld-xrf.html Some specialty metals scrap yards use these, just be sure not to use a spark type as I'm not sure if it will damage the parts surface. https://www.bruker.com/products/x-ray-diffraction-and-elemental-analysis/optical-emission-spectrometry/q4-mobile/overview.html |
#29
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__________________
To see my 129 parts for sale visit: http://stores.ebay.com/The-Mercedes-SL-Store John Roncallo |
#30
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULATYrEpiJM
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To see my 129 parts for sale visit: http://stores.ebay.com/The-Mercedes-SL-Store John Roncallo |
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