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  #1  
Old 07-02-2002, 03:48 PM
MB Shop Retiree
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hockessin, DE
Posts: 1,047
300E head on a 2.6?!?!

Someone was telling me that the m103 3.0 head should fit right on to the 2.6 and would essentially make my 2.6 a 3.0? This just doesn't make sense to me, but I thought I'd ask.

Thanks alot guys.

Charlie.
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Chirag (Charlie) Patel
--------------------------------------------
- 03 Mercedes S600 Sport TTV12
- 97 Acura NSX-T
- 99 BMW E36 M3 w/500+ HP
- 04 Lexus RX330
- 04 Dodge Dakota Quad 4x4 V8

4 Sale:
- 99 BMW M3 E36 Coup with Dinan SC, Upgraded to an RMS Stage 3 with Aftercooler, 12psi, and 500+hp @ flywheel.
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  #2  
Old 07-02-2002, 05:57 PM
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The 300E head has larger valves & combustion chambers so unless other modifications were done, the head wouldn't work. Also you would still have a 2.6 liter engine. The bore is different on the 300E engine & that is how they increase the engine to 3 liters.
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  #3  
Old 07-02-2002, 10:49 PM
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Posts: 3,473
on a 260E, there is a head you can get that ups your horsepower by 100 hpr. If you want to know, I will have to ask my friend about it. He had a 260E brand new, and he had it on his.

Austin
__________________
Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.
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  #4  
Old 07-03-2002, 01:06 AM
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Posts: 147
Hi Austin:

I need to do headwork on my 260e since I blew my head gasket. I may need a new head. I would be interested in increasing my horse power by 100. Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Aloha,
Eric
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  #5  
Old 07-03-2002, 01:00 PM
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Location: Hockessin, DE
Posts: 1,047
The only reason I asked is cause I just rebuilt my engine completely and am now trying to sell it, but would have loved to add a new head that would give my more hp. I'm trying to find a 300SL engine to match up to my 190E 2.3-16v driveline to up the power.

O well, guess a dollar short and day behind :p
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Chirag (Charlie) Patel
--------------------------------------------
- 03 Mercedes S600 Sport TTV12
- 97 Acura NSX-T
- 99 BMW E36 M3 w/500+ HP
- 04 Lexus RX330
- 04 Dodge Dakota Quad 4x4 V8

4 Sale:
- 99 BMW M3 E36 Coup with Dinan SC, Upgraded to an RMS Stage 3 with Aftercooler, 12psi, and 500+hp @ flywheel.
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  #6  
Old 07-03-2002, 01:25 PM
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According to Renntech, the 300E head will work on the 2.6 190E (I already asked) but don't expect any hp gain from it. Polishing/porting your head and a high performace cam would net you about 20 hp, a little more if you up the compression. This is what AMG and Brabus have done on their 190E performance cars. Of course AMG upped the displacement to 3.2l and Brabus upped it to 3.6, both motors were rated at 240 hp and used a 300CE auto trans.

There is nothing you can do to a 260E/190E 2.6 head to net you 100 hp, the absolute most you could expect (with stock displacement) would be 25hp and that is with upping the compression. All Brabus could squeeze out of a 3.6l motor was 240 hp, so that should say it all.

The 300SL motor would be a good choice as the earlier models used the CIS injection and put out 228 hp stock. Keep me informed as to your progress, I am a bit afraid to tackle a project like this since the ECU and wiring harness would need to be swapped as well.
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  #7  
Old 07-03-2002, 02:32 PM
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If I had a 190E, I would put in a 3.2 L DOHC electronic fuel injected engine, and not CIS. That would be a pretty fast set up.

I will find out about the head.

Austin
__________________
Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.
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  #8  
Old 07-03-2002, 02:43 PM
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The engine I mentioned is basically the same, it is a 24valve OHC cam engine, but uses the old CIS injection. Swapping the motor from a 300sl with the newer style injection is going to be even more complicated.

The 24 valve 3.2l motor is rated at 228 hp as well, there was no HP gain from the 3.0 to 3.2l increase in 1993/1994. Too bad though. Its possible the motor would provide more hp if mods were done to it (compared to a 3.0l)
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  #9  
Old 07-08-2002, 05:54 AM
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I asked my friend about the Cylinder head for 2.6L that adds 100 Hpr. He said that he knows it was from europe and he was going to put it on when he bought the car a while back. I dont know if they are still around or not. He didnt remember very much about them.

Austin
__________________
Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.
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  #10  
Old 07-08-2002, 07:37 AM
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hockessin, DE
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Well 2Phast I know we've talked, and thought I'd show you this since its what you are porbably looking for.

The Engine looks great, don't know how gready he might be, but to do this install with a 2.3-16v is actually not bad at all.

The only things that need to be changed, are the cruise control harness (if you have cruise control on, and hit the clutch, the revs increase if you don't hit the break, and the reverse light (which you can actually make your own harness by changing the pins.)

I actually have my 2.3-16v sitting at Rick from RC-Imports since he was suppose to do the conversion, but I haven't been in DC, and won't be until fall. Feel bad its sitting at his shop, but he supplied me with all the information to do the swap. He told me, the 2.3-16v radiator that I have isn't even needed to be swapped out, he said the stock radiator can just have the auto cooler lines plugged. The front half drive shaft is included, along with the pressure plate, clutch cylinder and plate, brake and clutch pedal, shifter, and everything. Only thing missing is the stupid console wood which has a different opening for the manuals which I haven't had time to look for.

I was considering a C36 engine swap, since the Engine was rebuilt going for like $3500 on ebay, and another Electro TEC 2 for 6 cylinders for like $1150. But that man hours are incredible.

Instead, the 300SL engine is real easy to bolt on, and Mike Skees did this conversion along with Rick since they raced their 190Es. Mike actually use to work at Potomac German Auto, and told me its a very simple install. He even mentioned ways of getting the motor up to 250+hp without much work.

Granted the KEH feul injections aren't the best, but it sure is the easiest. If I had the money, I'd do what Dr. Piad did and rev the C36 engine to 8000 rpm and 350 hp, but I guess conservatism in best.

The 300CE tranny I heard was used for most of the other transplants, but only until about 240 lb ft. They said when Brabus and other tuners started getting heavy in to torque, they were upgraded, but still used those trannys because they were 5-speed auto, which I didn't know about.

I still picked the 2.3-16v cause its what MB Doc, BenzMac, Rick from RC-Imports, Dr. Piad, and more used since the stock Getrag trany has more parts available, and had the most torque handling characteristics. I asked RennTECH about the tranny (very similar tranny in 300SL 90-93 actually) and they said the tranny was never upgraded since it was the Getrag unit, and could easily handle 350 lb. ft. of torque)

I know someone overseas actually has done this conversion, and then lowered the compression in these engines, and then went and turboed the 300SL engine (changed a few internals) and was getting 310 hp off 4-6 psi) but I haven't been able to get any further with follow ups with that gentleman.

Its Rick that actually steered me away from the C36 install using an Electro TEC 2, so thats what turned me down from that project.

If you need emails, send me your email address I can try and forward all the emails I've made over the 2 years in trying to get this conversion done.

PS I like your wheels
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Chirag (Charlie) Patel
--------------------------------------------
- 03 Mercedes S600 Sport TTV12
- 97 Acura NSX-T
- 99 BMW E36 M3 w/500+ HP
- 04 Lexus RX330
- 04 Dodge Dakota Quad 4x4 V8

4 Sale:
- 99 BMW M3 E36 Coup with Dinan SC, Upgraded to an RMS Stage 3 with Aftercooler, 12psi, and 500+hp @ flywheel.
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  #11  
Old 07-08-2002, 09:32 AM
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Thanks Charlie, my email is rik@2phast.com.

I am on the fence about the engine conversion, I am trying to decide if I want to build a M103 3.0l motor or go with the M104 300sl motor. Either way, I will use the 300CE trans, do you know what year they started using the 5 speed auto? The AMG 3.2l 190E's were getting 234 hp out of 3.2l, that was kind of my goal.
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  #12  
Old 07-08-2002, 01:33 PM
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My 300CE is a 1992 witht he 4 speed auto. perhaps the 5 speed was only used in 1995 in the 300ce.

Alon
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  #13  
Old 07-16-2002, 12:59 PM
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Found out that the 93 AMG 190E 3.2-24v actually used a 93 300SEL engine and 5-speed auto tranny. It used the newer HFM.

The 300CEs all had 4-speeds even until 95. The only other 5-speed auto tranny available then wass the 300SL's, but I haven't been able to verify wether they are the same as the 5-speed auto tranny in the 300SEL's engine which produced more torque since it was a 3.2 then the 3.0. The 300SL engine only made 200lb.ft. while the 3.2 in the 300SELs made 230lb.ft.

Didn't know if that would help you in your quest or not, but thought I'd share 2phast.

Take Care.
Charlie.
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Chirag (Charlie) Patel
--------------------------------------------
- 03 Mercedes S600 Sport TTV12
- 97 Acura NSX-T
- 99 BMW E36 M3 w/500+ HP
- 04 Lexus RX330
- 04 Dodge Dakota Quad 4x4 V8

4 Sale:
- 99 BMW M3 E36 Coup with Dinan SC, Upgraded to an RMS Stage 3 with Aftercooler, 12psi, and 500+hp @ flywheel.
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  #14  
Old 07-17-2002, 09:48 AM
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Nice info. I have some German 190E AMG 190E literature detailing out what they did (1991) and in that year the trans was only a 4 speed and from the 300CE, so it does not look like its possible to use a 5 speed auto on the M103, as I suspect AMG would of used that trans, but anything is possible
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