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  #1  
Old 05-24-2002, 07:23 PM
ERASE
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Best fluids for 500E and E500?

So I can't find exact info on this. But other owners. What are your best experiences. I say experiences because I realy want to know what made a difference in actual usage.

I used mobil 1 and I really can't say I was very impressed- if anything on my 300E 2.8 the engine ran rougher. The car actually liked castrol better. Why....who knows. I cahnage oil at very short intervals typically rarely going beyond 2,000 miles and ussually at around 1500 miles. This is more because I don't put a lot of mileage on my cars and the oil ages. I try to avoid short hops.

I did prefer Mobil 1 on my older Audio Coupe Quattro.

Also best brake fluids, tranny fuilds etc... even wiper fluid.
But of course it can't void the MB warranty. any threads I could be pointed to would be great as i am sure this was already a hotly contested debate.

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  #2  
Old 05-25-2002, 12:12 AM
rainmaker's Avatar
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I use redline exclusively on the 500E. Can't complain.

Unfortunately that's one of the first things I did when I purchased the vehicle so I can't really compare...

Cheers!
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93 500E, 43k mi, Pics of upgrade parts
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  #3  
Old 05-27-2002, 12:25 PM
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I use Redline synthetic products in my rear diff. & tranny, and run WaterWetter in all 3 of my W124s. I use Mobil 1's new 15W50 "SuperSyn" in the engines of my gas cars, and Mobil Delvac One in my D (off-topic, but thought I'd mention it)
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  #4  
Old 05-28-2002, 02:11 AM
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Mike. You know the 500 rear differ is a limited slip and takes speical MB fluid for the clutch,stuff stinks like hell. Whats kinda synthetic is rec for our special diffs. ?. I'm eunning mobil one the stuff that comes out of our pumps at work. But its too darn thin.
When my car is warmed up its at 1 bar all the time. I even installed the updated heady duty spring in the oil pump. What viscosity Mobil 1 do you run?




see ya Guido
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  #5  
Old 05-28-2002, 02:30 AM
ERASE
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Probably what I should have asked.....

What worthwhile improvements- and worthwhile to me means increased longevity and perhaps performance whould I consider?

The Redline waterwetter sounds like a good idea

Reading about Oils I still don't know what to use- especially since so many non synthetic oils are marketed as 100% synthetic bases. I am tempted to use the Redline oils.

Isn't there some sort of real test info on the m119 engine done by MB that would show us what to use to optimize the life and performance of these cars?

A better Oil pump spring sounds like a no brainer as well.

IMHO (Which is pretty uneducated) anything that cools my engine better, helps my car breathe easier, reduces friction within the engine, must be a good thing for fuel economy, performance and longevity.

Will using non MB recommended fluids void my Starmark Warranty?
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  #6  
Old 05-28-2002, 07:05 AM
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I believe the Red Line fluids are acknowledged as approved fluids by MBZ-hmmm.

Guido, I run RedLine 75W90 All-synthetic gear oil. On the label it indicates compatibility w/ limited slip diffs (although you can add a friction modifier if chatter occurs). It seems to have taken the last 50k miles of abuse quite well

ERASE, definitely do both check valves, and the cooling "pigtail" works wonders (even if thoose damn noisy fans run a lot more)
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  #7  
Old 05-28-2002, 04:10 PM
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we just use the regular recommended stuff. all fluid changes are done at recommended intervals so there's not really any need to go to synthetics.

crankcase oil in particular is changed every 4000 km, so can't justify the additional cost for synthetic lube
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  #8  
Old 05-28-2002, 07:19 PM
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I use to use Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 OR Mobil 1 15W-50 (meets current MB specs).

Due to all the marketing baloney & messing with the Mobil 1 recipe, I may switch to only Delvac 1 or Chevron Synthetic Delo 5W-40 (cheaper than Delvac 1 by 4-5 dollars/gallon).

I was using Mobil 1 ATF and Mobil 1 gear oil, but after talking with some Porsche 928 owners (the 928 uses a Mercedes tranny virtualy identical to the 500E's) who track/race their cars, I've switched to SWEPCO 714 20Wt, and I've noticed better shifts.

Also, I now run SWEPCO's 201 80W-90 gear oil again due to its success with Porsche racers, and it comes with the necessary friction additives for a limited-slip differential. I might change to 80W-140 for added shock protection.

SWEPCO oils are also cleaner (less impurities) and taken from better stock.

Also Rick who runs Mercedes competitively with SCCA and runs RC Imports (http://www.rc-imports.com) has had NO DIFFERNTIAL failures and all his limited-slips show NO WEAR after a race using the SWEPCO 201. He also runs SWEPCO 714 ATF.

Unfortunately, my understanding and research has shown that that the 500E did NOT come with a limited-slip differential.

Swepco can be found at:
http://www.ritegear.com (no financial or other interest)
Do a Google (http://www.google.com) search on SWEPCO and PORSCHE.

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG (3.07 limited slip, no ASR)
1993 500E (2.82 w/ASR)
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  #9  
Old 05-28-2002, 10:54 PM
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Neil. Where do you get this swepco stuff never heard of it.


I'm runing stuck MB limited slip diff fluid with GM posi addative




Neil if you were to disasembly our diffs there clutches in there.
A tech had one apart last yr. My boss is buying a 500E 1992 for!12K. Needs some work. But pretty clean overall.

I'm sure I'll have to wrench on that one.


Let me know. Hey neil. what did you ever do with the 500E oem coils springs.

LAter Guido
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  #10  
Old 05-29-2002, 02:45 PM
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You can get the SWEPCO stuff from most independent PORSCHE shops, but cheaper from RiteGear: http://www.ritegear.com

SWEPCO's website: http://www.swepcousa.com

I still don't think the 500E's diff are limited-slip. The five that I've seen on the rack don't have that tag that says, Warning fill with limited-slip gearoil only.

I have 500E rear coils on the wagon. I MIGHT put the 500E front coils in IF I ever go to 500E front struts on the wagon.

BTW- why did you add GM Posi-additive if the MB fluid already has it? Chatterring?

:-) neil
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  #11  
Old 05-31-2002, 08:46 AM
Don Stevens
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Here is another "snake oil" to consider....more

Check out Amsoil at www.lubedealer.com/dstevens

It really is not snake oil but a top quality synthteic. I called it snake oil simply to rouse some interest . If you do some research you'll find that Amsoil was the first to the market (before Mobil-1 Redline, and the rest) with virtually every type of synthteic oil for automotive use and they have a stellar reputaion for quality and value. Because they are relatively unknown and we have all been brain washed by media advertising, most people think it is just another garage shop. Actually Amsoil's sales volume (North America) is third behind Mobil and Catsrol for automotive synthetic lubes and it is all class IV PAO base stock with the best additive packages in the market. Unfortunately it is only available by mail order in North America. I could re-sell it to overseas customers but honestly shipping costs make it cost prohibitive.

Use of this product WILL NOT void your warranty if you stay within factory recommended grades, drain intervals, and you have the documnetation to prove you have met the guidlines. Some late model Mercs require special lubes avaialble only at the dealers and I have an application guide to tell me which cars require which lubes.

I don't have a 500E (I wish I did) but I am a Porsche racer as well with several endurance race wins to my credit. I have experience with Redline, Swepco, and of course Mobil-1 and honestly believe that Amsoil is the best value for street driven cars. My statement is supported by used oil analysis results (including analysis results race winning cars) which in my oinion is the only way to measure a lubricant's performance. Advertisers can and will say anything to peddle a product but the real results (wear and longevity) show up in used oil analysis.

Feel free to e-mail with specific questions and if you want to read more go to "The great confusion at Mobil" thread on this board.

Don
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  #12  
Old 05-31-2002, 10:57 AM
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I don't have any +++ perf comments, however- - here is what I use in my Starmark '94 E500 (39.2k):

>Penzoil Long Life 15W-40: 1500 mile changes/ this weight and brand of oil has been used exclusively in the crankcase since brand spanking new and is still sold over the counter at Smythe European- Factory Auth Service in San Jose, CA.

>Coolant: MB OEM w/ Redline Water Wetter (also using cooling piggy tail)

>Trans & Rear: MB OEM

hope this helps
-fad

PS- just had the P/S pump and hoses replaced due to leaks
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2002, 01:05 PM
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Amsoil & 15W-40

Here in Portland you can buy all the Amsoil you want over the counter @ GI Joe's... It is usually on sale every other month or so.

I, too, have been using HD 15W-40 SJ/CH oils in my '91 420 SEL with the 7,500 mile change intervals: it leaks not a drop, uses none, looks clean as a whistle in the drain pan and hardly evidences even much of a color change. Mercedes has so many different specs for different models (a 500E is a pretty hot motor if I recall) & I can surely see why this seems to be an area for continued discussion. But I keep reading articles that all seem to agree that the additive packages in the SJ/CH spec oils provide the finest protection and are the longest lasting available in the dinosaur-based products. NAPA sells this stuff on Saturdays for $1.09 a quart.

After reading these boards I'm seriously considering changing the interval to something more like 5K miles... Know of a good source for oil filters in quantity? The best I've found is from Performance Products (www.************************) @ $5.41 each for 5 or more.
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  #14  
Old 06-11-2002, 03:38 AM
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>I, too, have been using HD 15W-40 SJ/CH oils in my '91 420 SEL with the 7,500 mile change intervals: it leaks not a drop, uses none, looks clean as a whistle in the drain pan and hardly evidences even much of a color change.

Have to agree. From what I can tell from oil analyses, and just simple old shade-tree-mechanic eye and nose tests, the CH-rated fleet diesel oils (I use Chevron Delo) are really tough stuff.

I know a longtime professional lubrication engineer who backs up that opinion. He says that the fleet diesel oils are the best single buy on a performance/dollar ratio basis, for either gas or diesel owners.

As far as the rest of the fluids for a 500E go (as well as the oil), my own take is that I'm stuck with MB factory spec until the Starmark expires, then will move to the following:

Oil -- 15w50 Mobil 1 (there is some concern here about ExxonMobil having been tinkering with the basestocks and additives in Mobil 1 to save money; I may shift to an alternate synthetic instead)

Coolant -- either MB or Dex-cool glycols, distilled water, Red Line WaterWetter

Diff -- Red Line synthetic 75w90

Trans -- Red Line synthetic Hi-Temp ATF

Brake fluid -- DOT4 Valvoline SynPower or ATE Blue

What I wonder about is power steering fluid. The older 380SL in the family is one that spec's Dexron II, and it has been humming away happily on Chevron Dexron III, even though it burns the stuff to porter-beer darkness in a few thousand km of use. It's cheap enough that I just flush it on a 5K km schedule.

The 500E is notoriously hard on power steering pumps, and from what I can tell, it appears to literally boil the PS fluid in the reservoir. I'm using totally stock OEM fluid right now, but my instinct is to move to the incredibly tough Red Line Hi-Temp ATF.

Anything that's used successfully by behemoth RV owners as they cross mountain ranges in the high Western deserts, without having to rebuild their trannies at the far end, is a fluid that has earned its spurs in my book. And a lot of those folks -tow- behind their rigs! That is serious thermal punishment. A Benz power steering pump is a liberty posting by comparison.

But several posters here have said, "Don't use Dexron III, or any other ATF, in a modern MB power steering system. There are friction additives that don't play well with the seals and gaskets."

I'm trying to keep my own counsel on that one. I may go ahead and try it anyway once the warranty expires.

s/b
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  #15  
Old 07-10-2002, 02:25 AM
Byron Evans
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Thumbs up Take a look at Royal Purple

Switched from RedLine to Royal Purple (RP) in my "87 560 SEL (at 65K-now 108K) &'88 M5 (at 92K-now 110K) in 1998. Better Timken numbers and referrals from NASCAR and NHRA users.
<http://www.royalpurple.com/>

Driving in S.CA using 20/50 in the engines-changes at 5K, 75/90 in the M5 tranny (slightly longer warm-up than MTL - shifts into 2nd gear smoothed out) & 85/140 in the M5 & 560 diffs. No seal leaks - which was a problem with RedLine MTL in the M5 tranny. Oil analysis tests were good with RedLine - no change with Royal Purple. E500 had Mobil 1 when I bought it (at 69K-last Dec) - changed to RP - ready to change again and analyze the used oil.

MB OEM ATF in 560 & E500.
MB OEM in the E500 diff.
ATE brake fluid - changed annually
MB & BMW OEM coolants - changed annually
RedLine Water Wetter in all cars (since '92 - last water pump in M5 at 40K & 560 at 65K-when I bought it.)

'94 E500 Black Pearl/Gray (12/01)
'87 560 SEL Black Pearl/Black (12/96)
'88 M5 Black/Black (12/89 - needs a good home)

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