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  #1  
Old 07-29-2002, 01:16 AM
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Took my diff out

Well here is the story....
My car has had a winning noise coming from the rear for some time now. I thought it was the wheel baring. So today I get under my car and proceed to take my axle out to replace the baring. Well I take the passenger side out (axle) and it is fine so I then say well the noise may have been coming from the drivers side. I take the drivers side axle out and, you guessed it it was fine.
I then started the car to see if my diff was making a noise, and sure enough my diff was winning (well in that general area). Since I had the axles out I figured I should take the diff out (just for fun). At least I can clean it up and do a good fluid change. BTW can anyone recommend a good weight to use? So while the diff was on the counter I checked it for play and found a bit of slop so I will open up the diff tomorrow and see what it looks like, and also check the specs.
No big deal for me it was fun.

Now my question, my car is a 124.034 I have a list of other cars with gears that I would like to check out but the list (from the service CD) is only in numbers not by model. For instance I would like to know what model is the 140.134 I know it is an S class but not which one. I think that the numbers in the CD are euro because it says that the E420 has 2.65 gears when I know that North America only got 2.24

I just had to tell someone.

Here is a pic for fun.
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Took my diff out-diff.jpg  
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  #2  
Old 07-30-2002, 12:35 AM
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Thumbs down Doesn't 'sound' good....

Subman,
Think you need to log onto BergWerks.com and see what they can offer or better yet call and speak with Carl about swapping in your diff for a rebuilt one with a better ratio such as a 2.82. He quoted me a good price to do mine for my 420E and would have done it except for so many projects on line at the moment...'tis the racing season!!

Good luck with your whining rear
Tobias MB
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  #3  
Old 07-30-2002, 03:17 AM
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Yea that sounds good to me but from what I know they want about $1200 for my car (non asr). That seems kind of pricey when I could get the gears and then have them intalled for way less. But the problems that I dont know what car he got the 2.82 gear from. I am looking for 2.82 anything higher is to much for my driving, and anything lower may not make that much of a difference. I do not even know if I will do the diff swap soon because I do far to much highway driving, but I would like to do it in the future.
I would like to know what car/gears I need to find that will be a directe bolt on in my car. The diff is a 129 and the ring gear is a 126.
BTW I am taking it to be looked at tommrow.
Thanks for the suguestion.
Subman
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  #4  
Old 07-30-2002, 07:32 PM
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Call Carl at Bergwerks regardless, he might have something.

Also contact Rick at RC Imports (http://rc-imports.com), he might have something, OR he can rebuild it inexpensively and he has the proper tools.

I run SWEPCO 80W-90 diff oil. It already has limited-slip addictive, and works find in non-limited-slip diffs. Ask Rick about it. SWEPCO has been proven (do a search) on the track.

You could also run SWEPCO 80W-140 if you do a lot of hard 1st gear runs. I get my SWEPCO from RiteGear (http://www.ritegear.com).

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E
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  #5  
Old 07-30-2002, 08:14 PM
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Well I took the diff in and they tech said it was ok. I also asked him about oil and he said 85-140, so I do not know wether to get the stock 80-90 or what (I have no idea about diff oil, anyone know a good website that will explane it) I figure that I will go with a weight that is better suited for the hot climate (I guess that the 85-140 is made for the hoter climate).
I also asked him how much labor would be for a gear exchange in my diff and he said $200. So if I can pick up some good gears for cheap I may just do it. I do not think that will happen soon
Thanks for the imput, Ill look into those places.
Subman
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2002, 12:49 AM
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Thumbs up

Subman,

I am very interested in what you find for gears for your E420. I've been wanting to do this gear swap in my 400E for some time now, but cant justify the 1200 bergworks charges. Let me know what specific gears im looking for, as I have a number of connections and books than can maybe help us out. I will continue to research this. BTW, did you run into any problems taking your axles and diff out? Ive done this on a W126 car before and it was not fun. Also, once (and if) I upgrade to the new diff, Id like it to be limited slip. Having a car of this power seems absurb to not have it. Do you know of a way to make it limited slip? Is bergworks unit limited slip?

Thanks,

-Andy
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  #7  
Old 08-01-2002, 12:19 AM
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I will keep you posted, but I am haveing trouble finding any sutiable gears. I do not know what cars to look for them in and if ASR makes a difference (I need major tech help on this one). The ratio I am looking for is a 2.82 if I could find out what cars have that ratio and will bolt into my diff housing I would be very happy. The diff housing is a 129 part number (90s SL) and the ring gear is a 126 number (80s S class). So I just need to find out what 126 came with a 2.82 and has a 210mm ring gear if that can be done then I am willing to bet that the gears will swap right out (but I am not sure). Or even a 129 with 2.82 gears would work.
Does anyone know if the SLs gears were 126 partnumbers???
So if I can find a ring and pinion gear with the 2.82 ratio with 210 mm ring diamater and a 126 PN I think it is a go but I do not know. I also dont know what the deal is with the ASR and why the gears from a ASR diff will not work (from what I have heard) in a non ASR diff. Does anyone have a good explaniation for this? Beacuse there are a ton of diffs with 2.82 that do have asr but I can not use them.

I did not have any problems with the axles and diff. Its just kind of a big job. But am having fun doing it, I just love working on cars.

I do not think bergwerks is limited slip, I know renntech has one but the option alone is 2K. That is just more to look into.

Subman
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  #8  
Old 08-01-2002, 01:52 AM
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I will check it out subman. As far as ASR is concerned, here is my take. From what I know, cars with ASR have 4 sensors (one on each wheel) instead of non ASR cars (1 on each front wheel and one on rear diff- 3 total). Therefore, ASR cars dont require any ABS sensor. I think that is right, but dont quote me. What cars have you come across that will work with the ASR diff? My 400E has ASR. Let me know.


Thanks,

Andy
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  #9  
Old 08-01-2002, 03:21 AM
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Subman- if your W124 400E/E420 has ASR then I am 99% sure a W124 500E's rear diff will work.

If you don't have ASR, then contact Stu Ritter on the Ritter/Easley MB list. He found a 3.07 limited-slip from a 70's 450SLC, and moved the innards to his original 400E's diff case. I believe he had to machine a stator in order to get an ABS sensor. Also, Carl of Bergwerks I believe did a 2.82 non-ASR for a 400E just recently.

:-) neil
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Old 08-01-2002, 03:18 PM
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I wonder if one of the Quaife torque biasing differentials (highly spoken of) could be adopted to this application.

Quaife don't list any specific MBZ applications in their catalog, but they do for a couple of roughly comparable rear-drive BMWs.

s/b
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  #11  
Old 08-01-2002, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
I wonder if one of the Quaife torque biasing differentials (highly spoken of) could be adopted to this application.


What is that? A fancy word for Posi??
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  #12  
Old 08-01-2002, 05:38 PM
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Quaife is a manufacturer of a different method of dealing with a slipping axles.

There are various methods that use springs & clutch packs (your standard limited slip); special gearing (Quaife, etc.); and viscous couplings (Torsen?).

AMG and RennTech have used Quaife and Torsen as well as traditional springs & clutches in the past.

So in a way it's fancy- but a whole different set of technologies.

:-) neil
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  #13  
Old 08-01-2002, 09:37 PM
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Cars I have come across with 2.82 diffs (That is what I am looking for, 3.07 is to low and 2.65 is to high)
124.036 (500E)
The rest I have no idea what model they are.
140.04
140.06
140.134
210.070 (up t 31.1.98)
210.270 (up t 31.1.98)
210.072
210.272
210.074 (up t 31.1.98)
210.274 (up t 31.1.98)
These numbers were taken off of the CD, I think that the nubmers quoted above are for euro market, but that is not to say that the US did not get the same ratio (unlike the 400E/E420).

If you have the 124 CD then it can be found at: program/Chassis/rearaxle/function210.pdf

Here is my guess on the ASR, non ASR deal, and this is purly what I think from looking at the numbers.
A nonASR car has a gear on the pinion gear that moves infront of the ABS sensor. This small gears sole pupose it to tell the computer how fast the drive shaft it moving (or something like that). So a car with ASR does not have this small gear on the pinion thus makeing the abs sensor on the diff ulsess that is why a ASR diff I not work on a non ASR diff (because of the lack of the gear) , and why theroticly a non ASR diff will work on a ASR diff. BTW the number of teeth on the ABS gear is different from diff/car to diff/car.
Sounds good, uh?
So if I can find a correct gear with the correct number of teeth on the ABS gear I am all go.

BTW I do not have ASR.
If anyone is going to look at a diff and has a doubt about the ratio it is stamped on the outside in the lower right corner of the diff housing (it may be hard to see). It is also stamped on the ring gear directly after the part number.

So if anyone can help that would be great.
I am also thinking about emailing Stu.

Thats all for now I am sure I will post more when I find more out or if I have more questions.

Subman
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  #14  
Old 08-01-2002, 11:39 PM
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I ran some of those numbers subman, and this is what I came up with...


400SE 92 140.042
400SEL/S420 93-95 140.043

300SD 92-93 140.134
S350 94 140.134


300SE 92-93 140.032
S320 94-95 140.032

E420 97 210.072

The rest of them I couldnt find a listing for. Im willing to bet in some of these cases, the diff's were probably different for the US market. I am wondering on any of these diffs, if the whole thing will just bolt up to the 400E, instead of doing a total gear change.
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  #15  
Old 08-01-2002, 11:57 PM
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Ok, I have just confirmed that the 97 E420 has the same Rear axle ratio 2.82:1 as the 500E. My question is, are these units swapable with the 400E? If not, would the gears swap?

Thanks to anyone who knows.

Also of note: all 97 (and later) E420's came standard with ASR.

-Andy
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