Intercooling help
 

Well I contacted spearco and they made up a HUGE intercooler for me. I want to know if it is the right size and if anyone knows of one that I can get cheaper since fabrication is VERY EXPENSIVE!!!!!

Intercooler core dimensions: 6.0" x 26.75" x 3.5"

The end tanks are on the long sides of the intercooler. They are 2.25" x 26.75" x 3.5"

Tell me what you guys think!!!!

intercooler
 

sounds too small to me for the kind of HP you are looking for.

What kind of area you got to put this thing in?

I wish some company made a nice front bumper that could accomodate a good size intercooler on the 190e. I have found a solution but it is a ricer one.

There are a bunch of intercoolers on ebay for sale.

do you think you could suggest a better size for me? 16lbs of boost on an M103 3.0l engine. I was going to mount it under the car between the radiator and the engine but I guess I ran out of space. Any suggestions for sizing on a frontal intercooler? I have a friend that took his bumper and made it into what he called a "fake" bumper probably just by hollowing it out and drilling vents, but this is also something that i would be willing to do. Tell me any suggestions that you may have. Thankyou sooo much!!!

I think I am going to go with an intercooler core with dimensions about 3.5" X 19.0" X12.4". What do you guys think? Big enough?

Intercooler
 

MADDOG WROTE:
>I think I am going to go with an intercooler core with dimensions about 3.5" X 19.0" X12.4". What do you guys think? Big enough?

reply:

Uh...Where are you going to fit this thing??

I can barely get a 6x3x24" under my front bumper. I would like to put a 9x3x24" core. 9x3x30" with the end tanks. If I cut the bumper out it might fit a 9" core. I found a Honda Civic front bumper which will fit the countour of the 190e. BUT that makes the front look like a Honda, not something I would like to do to a Benz! I cut the Honda bumper cover so I am just using the lower part of it and attached to the stock MB bumper. Maybe I should cut the opening in the front bigger and put some chicken wire.
We shall see.

I am limiting my HP to 325 since my car is an automatic until I rebuild the transmission. then I can go over 400HP! My plan is to push the stock motor until it can go no more!

The sizing on your intercooler is good for 500+ HP.

It is going to go right in front of the A/C condensor. I am going to have to remove the bumper and do a little modification to accomidate it but I will be able to fit a HUGE intercooler there. I am probably going to hollow out the bumper to fit some fans on those hot days, and if worse comes to worse, ill remove the A/C system from the car but I don't think I am going to do that. Are spearco intercoolers really worth it? I just sent them a spec form and they sent me a quote for a 3.5 X 10.50 X 20.8. $1136 though and I don't know if I am ready to cough up that kinda cash for an intercooler. I was hoping to find something on ebay but I havn't had any good luck yet with something that isn't going to be restrictive.

I was talking to another friend of mine and he suggested the Saab 900 intercooler of an intercooler off of a Buick Grand National. The Saab intercooler looked a bit small and the Buick intercooler I think would be the budget way to do it. Any thoughts on these?

I was also looking at the mitsubishi starion intercooler and I think that would also be good canidate but I would have to cut the end tanks off and fabricate some new ones because the inlet and outlet are too small. Any more thoughts..hehe

Intercooling
 

errrr...I thought in one of your post money was no object?

The Starion intercooler is ok but a little small, I used it on my VW and got 450 HP out of it. But it ran really hot.

If you are planning on spending $1200 buy an Apexi or Trust....
My friend is running an Apexi on his 700+ HP drag Honda and from testing it seems to keep the temp down well. He had a Spearco unit before with the same sq area and his HP was about 680. There was a 20 degree difference in IC discharge temp.

The Saab intercooler will work if you can fit it in front of the Benzs radiator. I think it will be too tight with the M103.

Water to Air is very efficient especially for street use. You could build an effective unit with all parts for less than $300. Plus the 190e has a lot of room to install a W2A-IC

What type of HP are you expecting?

Are you just going to front mount the IC with no front spoiler? or ??

Money used to not be an problem...a few months into the project and now it is...hehe. I was just planning on mounting it in front of the radiator. I am looking for 400hp numbers. What about the grand national intercooler? It is pretty decently sized and I can get one with a scoop to scoop the air into the intercooler. So you think I should go with a water to air intercooler? I want the 400hp numbers on street pump gas. I am running 16lbs of boost with 8.5:1 compression. I need the intercooler to be able to deal with those 99 degree days.

I would be fine with water to air if it can do that job. That is all that is important to me. I know air to air is better for max performance but I will go either way.

Do tell me what you think about the Buick Grand National intercooler.

check this one out too....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1849265433

cool
 

SAAB INTERCOOLER-
That would work if you could make it fit. It will push back your radiator 2.5" So what are you going to do about the fan?

I decided to go with the volvo intercooler. It will flow around 630 cfm and i will worry about fitting when the time comes. Right now I am just getting the engine running for a flywheel dyno.

I'm working on a setup much like yours, but with the 24V engine(104.980) and I'm going to get a custom intercooler made to fit tightly in front/below the radiator...

Pretty much like the one in these pics, but a little smaller...

http://www.bmwpower.nu/galleri/bilder/664_1.jpg

http://www.bmwpower.nu/galleri/bilder/664_2.jpg

(the pics were too big to attach)

That intercooler is placed in an old BMW 325, with a turbocharged M5 3.8 engine...:eek:

Here in Sweden it will cost about 700$ to have one IC made similar to the one in the pic...

Be careful when running an intercooler designed like that. The pressure loses inside the intercooler may get high with two small tanks on the sides. What are you going to use for a bumper? I think speedtek was trying to do a similar thing.

My intercooler is going to be smaller, 25 to 30 inches wide, but with bigger tanks...

I'm using a Rieger EVO3 front bumper, and will remove most of the stuffing inside it... :)

I'm hoping to have the car ready next spring...

cool
 

I would not worry too much about pressure loss with that IC. I would worry more about LAG! THat T04E on there should pump out some CFM. They must be running 2.5 bars of boost? Swedes love running high boost. That BMW must be making 700+ HP.
I would estimate they are shooting for 850!

So what have you found for bumpers speedtek?

Intercoolers
 

Maddog,

I'm intercooling a 1983 300Turbo Diesel and have gone through many of the problems that you're finding. Consider that if you put the intercooler in front of the radiator, you'll be dumping the radiated heat into the air passing through the radiator. Since intercoolers are designed to drop the temp from 120 degrees to 150 degrees, that means your radiator will be seeing those kinds of air temps. YOU MAY BEGIN TO EXPERIENCE SOME RADICAL INCREASES IN WATER TEMPS ON HOT DAYS.

Mercedes makes an intercooler for the C230, one was advertised the other week on Ebay and it apparently fits behind or below the bumper. 6"x 18"x 3.5 as I remember. Ask to see one at the local MB dealer on for more info at Fast Lane.

Get the Turbonetics catalog and that will finalize your concerns about the appropriate size intercooler. Plan on putting a Spal fan on the intercooler that you select. That way you get boost from idle. Most non-fan intercoolers require forward movement to obtain air flow through the intercooler before they begin to produce any additional boost. www. turboneticsinc.com is the site. Search Spal fan on Google and check out their 6.5 and 7.5 inch fan at 330CFM and 440CFM respectively. Turbonetics uses the 7.5 on their new Toyota MR-2 intercooler.

Good luck.

Ben

Hope you guys don't mind me buttin in, but why were talking turbos and cooling, i have a question.
How important is a watercooled center section as opossed to an oil cooled/lubed only center section?

Thanx
Dan

Da Man
 

Ridge knows what he is talking about. I saw his car a couple of weeks ago.

Very smart set up.

How do you calculate the piping size from the turbo through the intercooler to the intake? I've got a T3 that I'm planning on using, which has a 2" outlet. I've got my eye on an intercooler with a 22x5x5.5 core and 2" inlet/oulet. I'm planning on making 15+ lbs of boost and about 350HP. Will this IC with 2" pipe flow enough?
What can I use as a guideline?

Thanks!

intercooling
 

Dan15V,

If you'll give me the cubic inches of the engine that you plan on intercooling, I'll look in my Trubonetics catalog and give you several intercooler sizes that will wotk.

Ben

Ben, my engine is around 145 cubic inches. Will the sizes include the pipe size?
Thanks for your help!

Moab_dan
 

The water cooled section is to prevent coking. The hardening of the oil on the exhaust turbine wheel shaft. Although it doesnt work 100%, here are a few things you can do to prevent "coking"

Use good oil and change it frequently
Keep your oil temp around 180 degrees F
Avoid High exhaust tempatures on the turbine side.
(1200 to 1350 degrees is good on a gas motor, mearsured before turbo, diesels run cooler.)
Look up on the internet on coking and you will find a lot of info.
some of it bull, but sort it out and you'll be fine.

Size counts.
 

Maddog,

Here are some of the sizes from the Turbonetics catalog. BTW, they have a manual on intercooling for $15.00.

2.4-4.0 Liters High Performance Street

#2-210 5.9x11.75x6 Deep. 450HP Flow Rate 525
# 2-211 11.8x11.75x6 Deep 780HP F.R. 1180
# 2-216 10.5x28x3.5 Deep 530HP F.R. 790
# 2-205 13.04x24x3.5 895HP F.R. 1280
# 2-207 14.2x18.5x3 675hp F.R. 1010
# 2-209 7.125x18.5x3 450HP Flow Rate 1280

These are sizes of cores only, so you'll need to add the cans on either end per your installation.

There's only so much HP that you can gain from an intercooler of any size. You can, however, add fulltime air through it by installing a Spal fan which would give you max intercooling sittin at idle. Then you could add water mist in front of the intercooler which would drop the air temp flowing through the intercooler by 30 degrees F. On the water mist you could have that rigged to the throttle so you only get it on max throttle.

BTW, we drove our first intercooled '83 300 Turbo around last night. Now all we have to do is recalibrate the turbo for the pressure loss across the intercooler and replace the automatic tranny with a manual one and Katie bar the door.

We've also got to rig sensors so we can verify combustion temp drops, exhaust temps, fuel economy, and HP increase.

We'll take pixs today and put them up. You'll see from the pixs that we also made things look sexy. Polished aluminum and blue.


I urge you to check out the intercooler found on the supercharged Mercedes C230, you might find one cheaper in a local junkyard and you're staying with MB components. Check Fastlane, too.

Ben

Congrats!
 

Ridge, Glad to hear you had fun with your '83 intercooled 300D!

After driving your '84 4 speed 300D product, and viewing your unfinished '83 product, I can imagine how the latter will perform
once finished!

Yeah, Katie bar the door and keep your hair brush handy:D