(Repost of query from Tech Help)

I have a chance of a tidy 190E 2.6 automatic with a blown engine. I know the 2.6 M103 from the E class is the same engine. Will the 3.0 M103 fit into the 190E? If it fits, is it a straight swap or will I need to start butchering the electronics?

I know the 3.0 has a different transmission in the E class, but will it fit the standard tranny in the 190E? If not, will the 3 litre tranny fit the 190E tunnel?

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Cheers, Neil

Direct bolt-in on the 300E motor into the 190E. Shouldn't have any real problems as there is only 30HP more.

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MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator

Hmm, 20 hp more on the OE 3.0 motor. 158 vs 178, assuming your talking about two US spec motors with cats on them.

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1993 500E
http://2phast.com/500e/500e-sig.jpg

Thanks for the info, MB Doc

2phast, I'm in the UK so that's euro spec.

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Cheers, Neil

Right, the differences in general are the same, just add roughly 10 hp each without cats. Still only a 22 hp difference between the two

m103-983 motor, 188 hp no cat, euro
m103-941 motor, 166 hp no cat, euro

22 hp difference, not 30 hp.

US spec would be roughtly 20 hp difference between the two.

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1993 500E
http://2phast.com/500e/500e-sig.jpg

ON the dyno, DOC is correct. The 2.6 will dyno a little lower than spec and the 3.0 a little higher.

We speak from real world data, not what is read or published.

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Benzmac:
Donnie Drummonds
ASE CERTIFIED MASTER AUTO TECHNICIAN
MERCEDES SPECIALIST 11 YRS

Thanks for the info
:p

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Cheers, Neil

I have dyno'd enough cars to know that "real world" can be higher or in most cases lower. You can't generalize, as you can dyno 20 motors and no two will provide the exact same output, some might put down more hp some less. So the claim of a 30 hp difference is still not valid, maybe in a few select motors but on average the hp difference is going to be more close to the 20 hp figure I mentioned.

Case in point, my 1989 300E dyno'd at 144 and my 1992 190E 2.6 dyno'd at 128 to the rear wheels, same dynojet dyno +/- 5 degrees on outside temp and +/- 3 degrees engine temp.

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1993 500E
http://2phast.com/500e/500e-sig.jpg

I like the idea of replacing a 2.6 with a 3.0, because they are the same engine. However, if later you needed to put the 300e transmission that normally mates to the 3.0 engine, would this be a problem in a 190e?

Neil - I am in England and have spent quite a time looking into this. Email me at rw0584@yahoo.co.uk or if you like keep posting here and I can help.
I eventually didn't do it because I couldn't source a good condition engine and box.

The 722.4 autobox (the only one found in the 190E) will not fit the 3.0 engine. I spoke to an automatic specialist who does work for my dad's independant garage, who said the hydraulics etc etc are different, and even if you could hook them up, the ramp angles (!?) would be all wrong. However this was relating to my 4-cylinder car, but even so every 2.6 MB has the 190Es same 722.4 box, and every 3.0 MB has the stronger 722.3 box - there must be good reason for this.

See these links:
http://www.peterschmid.com/7224app.htm
http://www.peterschmid.com/7223app.htm

So, it's pretty certain you will have to change transmissions.
On the plus side, the casings are pretty much identical in both gearboxes, so fitting the bigger box in the 190Es tunnel is no problem.

You have it easier than me, as I would have to have modified my slam panel to fit the 300E radiator, or obtain and fit the 2.6 slam panel and radiator (with dual fan). Your existing cooling will be adequate.


I would suggest going ahead with this engine insertion! It's one of the simplest around, and would be very effective. Let me know if I can help, I have photos of 190Es with 3.0 engines and other info from my research. I'd also like to see your car with this engine in if it happens!


later

Russ

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190E's:
2.5-16v 1990 90,000m Astral Silver
2.0E 8v 1986 107,000m Black 2nd owner
http://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall.jpghttp://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall2.jpg

I hung about too long and ended up with a big bill on my daily driver (BMW) so I missed the chance on the 2.6. It was going for £300 but I just could raise the cash!

So I would still like to do it but would have to find a new project car.

On the transmission point, I don't understand why the 3.0 won't fit the autobox in place of the 2.6. I accept that the extra torque of the 3.0 might be too much for the 2.6 box, but the engine blocks are almost identical, I understand.

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Cheers, Neil