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  #1  
Old 12-16-2002, 09:07 PM
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Brake upgrade for early model W124

Are the late model W124 brakes (with four piston caliper, 400E etc.) compatible with the early (1987 and such) 124's? Are the parts a direct swap?

If I change the rotors, will I also need to change the plate behind the rotor in order for them to fit? Thanks for any help.

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  #2  
Old 12-17-2002, 02:00 PM
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A member named 2phast is exceptionally knowledgable on the subject. Check out his website -- he covers the upgrade in great detail: www.2phast.com

His site covers the upgrade on a 201, but it's my understanding that the brakes are interchangable between 201 and 124 models.

Again, check out the web site. I'm merely a casual enthusiast. 2phast is clearly an expert on the topic.

Jeff Pierce
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  #3  
Old 02-11-2003, 09:10 AM
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Download: http://www.meimann.com/docs/mercedes/124_brakes.pdf or the *.xls files among other good to have files, like sway bar information...: http://www.meimann.com/docs/mercedes/
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Old 02-11-2003, 02:32 PM
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The files mentioned above have a bunch of information, but can be overwhelming to decipher. Here's what I've found out:

1- The 400E and late E320 front brakes should bolt on. The rotors are only 3mm thicker, but they have nice 4-piston fixed calipers instead of the single-piston floating.

2- I was told by somone who did it (omegabenz?) that the early 500E and SL 300mm front rotors also bolt on. I do NOT know if the late 500E and SL 320mm rotors will fit without also swapping the hub & knuckle (they will definitely fit if you do swap the hub & knucke). These are heavy and expensive and I wouldn't bother.

3- All 124's that used the 4-piston, 25mm thick front rotors had different lower control arms. Some people have problems with the new rotors touching the ball joint area, others don't. Just be warned you *may* need a later model control arm, they're cheap at salvage yards ($50/ea I think). I forget if I added that tidbit to the files above.

4- Yes you will need the larger front splash shield, they're $30-$40 each. Pull the hub, swap shields, reinstall hub & rotor.

5- For rear brakes, the 400E and 500E have larger diameter AND vented rotors. Either 400E or 500E calipers will work. However you need the 400E rotors, the 500E rotors are different as they are used with the SL rear hub. You'll need to chop off the rear splash shield. The only way to replace it requires removal of the hub, which requires replacement of the bearings, which is NOT a DIY job and is very expensive at a shop ($500-$1000 I think). 2phast just chopped them off.


For the record, I bought a set of four E420 calipers and rotors, and I plan to install them on my 1987 300D in the next month or two. I'll be taking photos and posting some details on how it works out, including the weight penalty for the heavier parts. This is a very expensive upgrade, as I am finding out the hard way... calipers will be $300-$500 per set, plus $200 for new rotors and $100 for pads, plus $100 for shields and miscellaneous items. You might get lucky and find used rotors cheap but most yards I talked to wanted as much as new!

Finally, Neil V claims the 400E master cylinder and dual-diaphragm booster may be needed to reduce pedal effort and improve stopping distances. He put 500E brakes on his 1988 wagon and was not impressed until he also did the m/c and booster. I'm going to try it stock first and only swap if I don't like the feel, as the m/c and booster change is expensive AND a big job!

Rik (2phast) is where I got this idea in the first place. He recently updated his website, so you don't need to wait for one giant page to load, you can click the link for the mod you want - MUCH nicer! Here's the URL for his tricked-out 190 with the 400E brakes: http://www.2phast.com/190E/default.htm


HTH,
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  #5  
Old 02-11-2003, 04:00 PM
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Thanks for the comments.

I look forward to hearing your report on your brake upgrade using the stock master cylinder/booster. This has been a semi-debated topic and really the only way to put it to rest is for someone with a known good master cylinder/booster to do the swap and see how the brake system works. This will be a enormous benefit to W124 owners wanting to raid the MB parts bin for brake upgrades.

The W124 Brake PDF is a wealth of information, Dave M, do you mind if I use it on my web site?
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  #6  
Old 02-11-2003, 04:24 PM
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Hi Rik,

Sure, you can use the files from my site, just mention where you got them somewhere (small print is fine). Also check back periodically in case I update them!

On a side note, some folks emailed me who wanted the E60 sway bar like you have. I hit up some contacts I have across the pond asking for current availability. Turns out the price has skyrocketed, to about $600 USD plus shipping from Germany (another $50-$100). OUCH!! And we're still not sure if they are available, as it just mentions "special order"... that doesn't always mean there are some on the shelf. You lucked out getting yours for ~$200 or whatever when you did!
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  #7  
Old 02-11-2003, 07:29 PM
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rotors for the front for standard ate discs should cost less than $100 for the set.

I don't know where you got those figures. have you called Phil@ partsshop?

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  #8  
Old 02-11-2003, 07:44 PM
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Thanks Dave, no prob's on the credit. The price on the E60 bar is kind of scary now, looks like more people will be going with the Eibachs then.
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  #9  
Old 02-11-2003, 07:50 PM
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Alon, it's the rear 400E/500E vented rotors that are expensive, $40-$50 each. Even at $40/ea for all 4 plus shipping it's awfully close to $200/set... most places are $50+ for the late model 294x25mm front rotors.

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Old 02-11-2003, 07:55 PM
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just checking cause I can do pads and discs fron and rear for my 300ce for like $200 shipped.

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  #11  
Old 02-11-2003, 10:55 PM
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E420 brakes you have to cut the dust shield to bolt on the brakes on the front.

same with Sl500, but they do fit.

Rear brakes, 400E rear brakes are a waste, they are just vented, but its the same caliper as 300E and you have to cut the dust shield. I personally, bought SL600 rear brake dust shield, then installed that, which is the same part as 400E rear dust shields. So definately when you do wheel bearings upgrade the dust sheild just in case.
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  #12  
Old 02-12-2003, 12:06 AM
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FYI, the rear 400E (and 500E) brakes are 20mm larger diameter, and vented. But they do still use a 2-piston caliper. There would be some advantage due to more pad swept area (fade resistance) and better cooling from venting (warp resistance). But I wonder if the 400E m/c & booster are needed to maximize the benefit. I believe Rik used a proportioning valve in his car, he mentions it in the part list but I didn't see comments on install or adjustment...

On a side note, I think I'm going to try Textar "Yellow Box" pads with my E420 brake upgrade. They cost 1/3 as much as Porterfields and I haven't been able to find anything bad written about them on this forum (or elsewhere). I just wish Performance Friction would make their carbon-metallic pads for Mercedes... !
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  #13  
Old 02-12-2003, 08:04 AM
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For street use, Textar's work great; track use is out of the question, however.

I just secured Performance Friction as a Sponsor of Team Blitzen for this year's running of the One Lap of America. They are donating brake pads for my partner's Porsche Turbo (our 1 lap car), but I've expressed a desire to have them come up with a fitment for our cars; I'll be running a few of the tracks prior to the Lap, and have still yet to find a brake pad that can handle more than 150 miles of my novice braking tactics!

Oh, and BTW I still have a set of 500E/500SL front calipers kicking around (300mm setup), so if anyone has an interest let me know.

I'll keep the Forum posted ;-)
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  #14  
Old 02-12-2003, 12:13 PM
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500E/500SL, could you send me pictures? Thanks
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Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.
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  #15  
Old 02-12-2003, 12:23 PM
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Yes the 400E units are larger and provide more clamping power, a very good choice for the rear of the W124 6 cyl.

I did intend upon installing a brake bias adjuster, it was something I picked up right around the time I was doing the brakes, but low and behold, after installing the 400E brake setup and getting them seated correctly, ABS testing proved that I did not need to mess with the proportioning. The front ABS kicks in just a little before the rears, right where it needs to be. So I sold the brake bias adjuster.

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