Which is better? Quattro or 4matic? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 12-26-2002, 12:24 PM

Hi,
I am interested in comparing the Quattro and 4matic AWD systems.
Anyone have any technical insights or able to point to very recent information sources describing current AWD systems and their relative technical and performance merits?
Thanks
farrukh

MBlovr · #2 12-26-2002, 02:21 PM

As far as I am concerned Quattro is the standard. The 4 matic system brakes the spinning wheel inorder to redistribute the torque through open differentials, versus Quattro's utilizing viscous couplings to transmit the torque. The Quattro systems have demonstrated themselves to be highly reliable.

suginami · #3 12-26-2002, 02:24 PM

I don't know anything about the technical merits of each system, but just know that the quattro system is very highly regarded.

The 4-matic system, at least as used in the W124 chassis, was a nightmare for durability and reliability. They have a high failure rate and are incredibly expensive to replace.

akry · #4 12-27-2002, 02:34 AM

I would say, Quattro as well... but keep in mind that there are 2 versions of Quattro... The one used in Audi TT isn't as nice as the one used in A4/A6/A8.... which is permenantly engaged AWD... while the one in Audi TT operates in FWD 'til front tires started to slip.....

Lebenz · #5 12-27-2002, 11:18 AM

Are you talking the old or new 4-matic? Both were state of the art when introduced. The old 4-matic system was retired, evidently due to endless and expensive maintenance. The Quattro system was more reliable and faster reacting. However the new 4ETS+ system blows away the competition for any number of reasons – lower maintenance, quicker response time, no viscous clutch to wear out, the added benefit of directional stability (aka ESP) open differentials and so on; and 4ETS+ is very sensitive to wheel slippage, has the ability to keep or get the vehicle moving if only 1 of 4 wheels have some traction. Plus let us not forget that the Quattro system comes bolted to an Audi, where the 4-matic system is part of a Mercedes!

Lebenz · #6 12-27-2002, 11:24 AM

Speaking of 4matic, my neighbor just bought a new car. He said he wanted to buy a Mercedes 4-matic but couldn’t see spending the money. Then he looked at the Audi Quattro and again couldn’t see spending the money, so he bought a VW 4-motion, that he claims is just as good as the Audi and better equipped than the MB for $30,000 less than an e320 4-matic

#7 12-28-2002, 08:22 PM

It really depends on the quattro system used -there are several generations of the quattro drivetrain, all with different develpoments and improvements. As far as what I own, it's the first generation, circa 1985. The diffs were lockable (both the center and rear) although not at the same time. It's a simple system, and quite honestly I prefer it over the expensive tor$en center diffs of the later cars. Audi has always put their best work into the quattro cars and it shows. The systems are over engineered to be just about bulletproof. I haven't done too much research into the newer A-series cars and their quattro systems, but I haven't heard too much as far as those systems being maintenance nightmares either. I can say that my little 4000 quattro has been reliable beyond my greatest expectations, especially considering the "issues" with alot of the 80's Audi models. My car's got well over 150,000 miles and it's on it's original CV axles!! I have done the necessary checking and occasional maintenance on them, and I swear these things just amaze me!! I have owned several other cars that had to have their axles done TWICE by the 150k mark!! But really, the Audi quattro is the grandaddy of the AWD market. End of story.

BAd124 · #8 01-10-2003, 02:20 PM

I dont have any hands on in a newer 4matic, but I can say that I am amazed by the 3rd generation quattro that my 90cs and parents A6 uses. Over xmas we got about 8 inches of snow and the reason I had to stop going was becuase I couldnt see out of the wind shield because my wipers wouldnt clear the snow fast enough as I was going through the powder, well above the door sills. It is easy to forget what a diff it makes, so when I was forced to take out our Blazer one night and left it in 2wd I was shocked. As far as 4matic I dont like the idea that the wheels have to start slipping in order to tranfer power. Quattro uses a Torsen from front to rear and this is TORque SENsitive and doesnt depend on slippage to react. Once you slip you already lost control. And it just eats brake pads as well. It may work well for slippery roads but I would think for really deep snow the quattro will beat it out. One fun benefit of both though is when all the traffic on the highway is going 20 in the lane with pavement, you just pull into the snow covered lane, pass everyone like they were standing still and watch the looks you get

dieseldude · #9 01-10-2003, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebenz
he claims is just as good as the Audi and better equipped than the MB for $30,000 less than an e320 4-matic

Wow! What a great deal he got Tracy! He may be on to something

Did he drive the E? Seriously, even though I commend VW for thier build-quality improvement in recent years, the Passat it still to the E what it has always been: German in heritage, but about half in content/quality/performance.

Is a new E320 overpriced? - Yes (I certainly can't afford a new one), but so is the VW at $30k...Give me a well-cared for used 4-matic for the same price over a new VW anyday! Back on topic - I'll echo sentiments of Tracy: I've heard the new 4m system is everybit as advanced for it's time and lacking in expensive maintanance of the old system. I doubt you could go wrong with 4m or Quattro though.

Regards,
- Ryan, who's next vehicle will be a W210 4-matic wagon

Hammer Wagon · #10 01-10-2003, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebenz
Plus let us not forget that the Quattro system comes bolted to an Audi, where the 4-matic system is part of a Mercedes!

As the owner of an A6 Quattro Wagon I'm inclined to agree. Leaky diffrential seals, burnt fingers from a shorted heated steering wheel, flimsy glove box doors, disposable water pumps, fuel pump/ fuel sender issues and numerous other niggling problems negate the technical aspect (tractional aspect?) of the argument in my opinion. Unless you're a rally driver I'd vote for the solidity of the Benz.

Of course if I could have my Quattro attached to an RS6 Wagon, I might be somewhat more forgiving.

iread · #11 01-11-2003, 02:18 AM

If you are going to compare a 124 4matic to a Audi Quattro. You may have to compare the 90-93 MY's. Which car would you rather drive?

I don't know much about Quattros except that the newer models use Torsen only at the centre diff whereas the the rear axle is slip controlled by the rear brakes. Early models may have used Torsen at the rear also. VW calls this 4MOTION. I believe that up to 60% of the input torque can be transferred to the front or rear wheels.

The 90-93 4MATICs use a hydraulically controlled transfer case and rear diff. There are essentially four modes which are selected by the computer which reads inputs from the ABS sensors. The wheel brakes are not applied to the wheels on the W124 version but they are on the newer 4MATICS. The transfer case is a 2 clutch planetary gearset which can operate in 3 modes. 2WD 100% rear wheel torque (mode 0) , 4WD 35/65 Fr/Rear torque split (mode 1)and 50/50 torque split (mode 2).
4MATIC Mode 3 is transfer case Mode 2 with the additional locking of the rear diff.
The modes are selected based on the following factors:
Drive slip (wheel slip)
Vehicle Speed
Steering angle
Acceleration
Time
Use of the Service brakes

Measured inputs are from the ABS sensors and steering angle sensor.

The 90-93 4MATIC has been known to be the most expensive W124 to maintain due to the added complexity of the 4MATIC system. There are numerous modifications to the this car to meet MB's high standards. The most common problem observed with the system is that its internal hydraulic seals in the transfer case start to leak at about 70k-100kmi. The hydraulic fluid then fills the ATF compartment in the transfer case and then an overfull condition occurs and external leakage results. The only fix is to have the transfer replaced with a rebuilt unit or new unit. The typical total cost is $2.5K to $3KUSD for this replacement.

The nice feature of the system is that it always starts from a stop in mode 1 (35/65) then reverts to 2WD when 12MPH (20kph) is reached and slippage is not sensed. When slippage is sensed, the system unobtrusively selects one of the other modes in order to eliminate the slippage condition.

BAd124 · #12 01-14-2003, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Plus let us not forget that the Quattro system comes bolted to an Audi, where the 4-matic system is part of a Mercedes!

Lebenz

I would be inclined to dissagree with this being that Quattro is what Audi is known for and they have been doing this since the 80's. Every car that is made is going to be designed with Quattro in mind. Where as the new Mercedes only offered an AWD system in the past few years......