Turbo for 320 CE, engine 104 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 03-15-2003, 06:29 AM

Hi everybody.

I want to install a turbocharger or compressor on my MB 1993, 320 CE, engine 104, W124. There are no factory one for this car model. But on some photos I sow turbo/compressor set on this car.
Maybe you know, what turbo or compressor is suitable for my car, cause dull workers of the factories can't answer this question. They only can say, that there are no suitable turbo/compressor in the list!

Speedtek · #2 03-18-2003, 05:45 AM

You could use a Turbo from a 1986-7 Buick Grand National. You can find one in the USA for about $650 rebuilt with a upgraded impeller. This turbo will show impressive results on your car.

Mike300ce · #3 03-19-2003, 04:50 AM

i am also looking at doing this modification aswell.
but from what i understand, with all the fabrication necessary it is easier and almost cheaper to put a supercharger on the motor, and with the w124 being slow to take off it would therefore provide extra power at low revs.

besides the turbo manifold there is a lot of extra work that has to be done, for effective turbo-ing you need an intercooler which 99% of the time for a good fit needs chopping of the body, many superchargers don't have intercooling, because they aren't heated up as much as a turbo by exhaust gases they don't require as much cooling.

from my experience with 3L turbos a T3 size turbo is a good size, my friend has one on his car which is a 3L turbo his turbo was standard T3 then he changed it to a T3/T4 hybrid, this spools up at about 2800 on his car and produces about 440hp on his car. bearing in mind that his car has had a lot of work done to it and is very expensive to maintain.

when i thought about doing a turbo on my car i looked at using a nissan skyline turbo manifold, they are only a 2.5L but i figured that they may be able to be benchflowed for a better flow-through. and adapter face plates may be able to be made up for any difference in the attachment.

i have hear of Reverse Rotation Superchargers which are essentially like half a turbo, and you can just mount them off you accessories drive, this is what, my latest idea is, to mount it off an additional pulley i would attach to the harmonic balancer, or the Viscous Fan, and then i would mount a thermo fan on the back of the radiator, and with the supercharger i would plumb it directly into the throttle body which i would assess when i get it, or have a chance to look closely at one. my thought on that if the throttle body didn't look like it would work well with a supercharger, was that i would then replace it with a a 4.0/4.1/4.2liter ford one, as ford make performance engines in australia that are 4.2L Naturally aspirated, or 4.0liter turbo motor, and i have a friend who works with ford so i may be able to get the parts quite cheaply.
yet then i am stuck as you maybe with the concern of the engine compression ratio, i don't want to have to rebuild my engine just for forced induction, yet if i can't change the ratio easily then i may have to aviod the forced induction.

after all that, try a performance house or work shop that has no particular ties to any one brand of equipment and who won't be baised as to what parts to use then they won't try to talk you into one brand of gear because it will be of no benefit to them, come to them saying you want a no bulls**t approach as to how to best go about doing this job.

#4 03-19-2003, 05:32 AM

the problem is that in Ukraine (and Russia) this kind of shop is almost impossible to find, and you will be charged very big bucks for such work. MOst people who offer their services arent experienced enough- supercharging and turboeing is not so big here. The solutions are :

-buy another car ( the cheapest and easiest of all)
-buy a kit like Mosselman twin turbo for M104 which is ready to go on your car
-make it yourself (a lot of stuff to care about-the fabrication of mainfold, modification of fuel system,........)

Most of the cars like this here have considerable mileage (200+ K km i guess?) and it is possible the engine will die soon after conversion

ZorroAMG · #5 03-19-2003, 02:53 PM

Hey speedtek, I am looking to do a FI system on my '90 300E and was wondering what direction to go for a turbo selection..I was thinking of using an intercooler from a 300ZX twin turbo as it is small and may fit in the engine bay. What do you think of the suggestion about supercharging like Mike300CE said..

Mike What do you think as well...I am rather inexperienced and new at FI but aam looking ot learn...

Speedtek · #6 03-20-2003, 11:46 PM

If you read some of my posts in the forums......I have a watercooled intercooler that will fit almost anywhere. I have a 93 300E to use as a base since it has a M104 in it. The only thing you will have to mount is the radiator for the intercooler. I am working on where to put that now.

ZorroAMG · #7 03-20-2003, 11:52 PM

Speedtek,

I appreciate your advice. Do you think turbo is the better route over supercharger? I also would like to know what is needed other than a new manifold (intake or exhaust or both?) a Blow-Off valve, intercooler, fuel management, turbo selection...

Is the M103 much different/harder to apply the tubo to as opposed to the M104?

Thanks in advance...

Speedtek · #8 03-21-2003, 01:31 AM

The M103 is easier to turbo than the M104. We can finish the M103 in about 3 days if we only work on that. Once the kits are done it should take a day. The M104 takes a good 5-6 days. This is because the manifolds are made from scratch.

BlackBeauty · #9 03-21-2003, 03:41 AM

Speedtek,
When will the turbo kit for the M103 be ready? I'm looking towards strong low end torque so will prefer a smaller turbo. Pls advise when your M103 turbo kit is ready. Thanks.

ZorroAMG · #10 03-21-2003, 06:07 AM

Yeah I'd definitely be interested in a kit...any idea on cost and turbo size used?

Thanks speedtek

Mike300ce · #11 03-25-2003, 08:46 AM

Everybody with my car i have decided no intercooler as useful as an intercooler is on high performance and high power engines i don't think i will be able to justifiy the cost and labour involved, besides i don't like cutting holes in cars.

besides i'd want a really flashy water cooled front mount ntercooler with a thermo fan and with mist sprays, and i know i would be wasting money.

Zorro, the main point of having an intercooler is to have the cross-flow of air cooling the air traveling within the intercooler, with a turbo it can give quiet dramatic performance increases, running more pressure in the cylinders, with less chance of pinging, this is because the air is significantly cooler, but with a supercharger(some types) they don't produce anywhere near the same level of heat as a turbo, so it isn't as necessary to have one, both superchargers and turbos have there benefits turbos unless designed and properly integrated into the engine like a porsche of audi turbo, can be harsh on pick up and, dangerous when powering through a corner if your car all of a sudden hits boost. A supercharger again may not be ultimatly smooth, like a Naturally Aspirated engine but seeeing as it is always spinning and pumping air it will tend to be smoother on pick up. Both are going to cost the same for a new unit. From what i have had experience turbo cars see to have more problems when you get into High Performance(I may however be wrong). I guess it all comes down to what you want from a car. It depends on how much you want to spend. I don't think i will go for a turbo anymore because it puts way to much load on the box, because it goes from about 100hp to 250hp within a few hundred revs. where as a supercharger will give a more even increase in power, but again its all in how you choose to tune your engine. I'd look at other less related things, Turbo cars get filthy on the back, the turbo dust stains the back bar and gets all over your car, but turbos sound very cool. Which is going to last longer, which will use less fuels, which will effect your insurance, which will your girlfriend like, which one will make you feel more like a man, which suits a Mercedes(Hint:- All the new AMGs are Kompressors)

The four key factors as i see it to take in to account -
1. What you want...
2. What you can afford(not just now either)...
3. What can be done in a certain time if there is a time limit...
4. What is reasonable if this car is your everyday car...

Anyway its early in the morning an i don't know if what i have written makes sense hope it does, if not just abuse me and tell me what i have done wrong.

ZorroAMG · #12 03-25-2003, 12:06 PM

Mike,, thanks a lot for the advice...i am dfinitely torn betwenn supercharging and turbo...I have no experience with forced induction and don't really know where to begin...any help you could give me would be appreciated...what did you decide to do for your car?

gsxr · #13 03-25-2003, 12:11 PM

unless you are REALLY attached to your M104 engined E320, you're probably better off just trading up to a 400E/E420 and chipping it. Probably a lot cheaper than turboing the 6-cyl, which has to cost several thousand dollars and still won't have the low-end torque of the V8. Just my $0.02...

Mike300ce · #14 03-26-2003, 04:30 AM

this is very true GSXR but there is something about forced induction that just makes it fun. besides an m119 is still not a cheap engine. and there is a work to be done to fit it, besides in Australia they don't fit in our bays with RHD setup.

Zorro i haven't decided i'd love scharged but turbo would also be great, but i think i'll go supercharged i don't know why but it just the merc thing, they seem to have always done superchargers. but that just me.

write down a list of things you want out of the engine, and then from there work out which supercharger, turbo or even V8 will get you to your goal with minimal fuss and cash outlay, write a pros and cons list. because at the end of the day modified car markets are rarely ones to get your money back on.

Ashman · #15 03-26-2003, 07:25 PM

frankly, I'd rather take a c36 motor and slap it in, then supercharge it.

I like the fact that a supercharger is always pumping air, versus a turbo that kicks in at a certain point.

I agree with mike, that if I was to do anything, I'd supercharge my car instead of turboing. I want more low end performance, because thats where the m104 lags, the top end, is fine by my standards.

Alon