Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject of buying a new car vs. fixing up an old one? I have a 92 400e and the high retail price to sell one is around $21K. Now the retail of a 92 500e is about $39K. Would you think that selling the 400 and buying the 500 (taking the loss of money)is a better idea than taking it to a tuner shop (like Renntech) and having it converted as close as possible to the 500e for the $20K difference in price?
I remember reading back in 1992 car magazines that the 400e did 90% of the job that a 500e did at a savings of $25K, thus giving it the "bang for the buck" advantage over the 500.
I know that Lee would have something to say about this, as he just bought a 500e.

Thanks,
Ryan

Ryan,
I just typed a LONG post regarding and answering most of what you just said in the Feedback section. I reviewed it in depth with Benzmac as far as what could be done to tune the car, what those mods would cost, etc. You might be able to build a hot-rod 400E that will be vastly improved over where you started but it wont match the total package of the 500E. I have read the detailed literature (of Benzmac's) regarding the subtle differences between the V8's. To upgrade the 400E to 500E specs would be more $$$ and hassle than it is worth. Brabus, AMG, or Renntech can do a great job but you will pay at least as much for just the engine work. (a stage 3 Renntech 6.0 V8 conversion runs $50K) Plus you will end up with something that might be difficult to re-sell, service, etc. The tuners are good, but when MB and Porsche get together on a high budget car.... The only "bargain" I can think of would be to find a 400E with a bum drivetrain. Buy the car for half of a working one and send it to a tuner for a engine rebuild. Problem is the drivetrain components are not as beefy as the 500E's. If you add that much power longevity will suffer. IF I were trying to come up with a hot-rod I would look to the 6-cyls and 190's. Take a 190 2.6 with a bum engine for pocket change, get it bored/stroked rebuilt to 3.6 liters with low compression pistons, then add twin-turbos. Use a beefed up manual transmission... It would be a mutt or bastard of the highest order but it would be fun. In the meantime I will take a nearly stock 500E that will deliver approx the same results and be a classic at the same time.

Just my thoughts....Lee

With Renntech, or most other tuners, $20K wont get a 400E even close to a 500E. You might get one area close, but you wouldn't be able to convert ALL aspects of the car for that price. A diff change will run anywhere from $2500-$4000. Brakes are another few grand. Engine work will certainly be 5 figures. Don't forget cooling, chassis re-enforcements, bigger CVjoints, etc. Then there is wheels and tires to put this all to the road. Suspension goodies will run another grand.(springs, shocks, swaybars) And it still wouldn't be the self-leveling setup on the 500E. Exhaust changes will run you 15K at Renntech. That just gets you raw performance, now there is the matter of looks. What about bodywork that is big $$$.

Seriously, if I were keeping my 400E and trying to work with it here is what I would do and the approx costs involved based on my research to date.

1: differential to 3.07 or 2.82 ratio. parts, labor, and speedo recalibration would run $2500-$3000

2: 225/50/16 wheels and tires. varies but let's say $1500

3: Eibach or H&R springs with Bilstein sport shocks. $600 plus install and realignment

4: Performance software tuning and airbox. $1000 or so depending on chip maker.

5: Remus or Borla muffler for cosmetic appeal. $750

Those mods above would sticker about $6,850 and give you a much sportier car. You would have about 300HP/320lb-ft with more functional gearing and enough tire to use all of it. Something to consider if you don't want to pay the upfront cost of a 500E. See above and other post for resale and reliability viewpoints.

Hope this helps...Lee

Thanks for the reply Lee. I knew that you would give me an honest and in depth answer. You are really swaying me toward getting a 500e now. If I only could find one for sale... Anyway, now we have the question of the 400e vs. 500e settled, it brings me to my next question. You stated that you were going to avoid using K&N filters because you were going to keep the car forever. Do the K&N air filters ruin the car when you put them in?

Thanks,
Ryan

Ryan,
I know K&N has allot of rabid supporters but it does have its drawbacks IMO. Unless you clean and SOAK the filter with the oil every 1000 or so miles it dries out and you start getting a problem with fine particulate on the intake charge. It was originally designed for race use, not extended street use. They say "million mile filter" but you could also say "million mile swaybar"....if you read the fine print or think logically you either have to clean the million mile filter often OR the dirt would build up by the pound inside. If the dirt doesn't build up then where is it going? Into the engine perhaps? For the time when they are cleaned and freshly oiled (that 500-1000 miles) they work great. I just don't want to be bothered with it for a measley 5HP. I would rather smooth out the intake plumbing for about the same gains. And/Or switch to a bigger OEM element. (V12 the only one that comes to mind) Sort of a "more trouble than its worth" issue in my eyes. If it gave me 25HP at the rear wheels gain then you would find me oiling on a weekly basis but for a 5HP gain I would rather get creative elsewhere.

Lee

Lee is right on this one. The K&N does let more dirt into your engine. The OE filter does do a better job of filtering. I use a K&N, however I do clean it on a regular basis. I also shake the dirt out of it on a weekly basis. If you don't want the hassel of this then I wouldn't recommend a K&N. It will give the car a little deeper tone though, which I do like. One of the reasons I stuck with a K&N (course my car is so loud now I don't think I could even tell a difference).

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Adrian Eckenrod
MBCA, PCA, BMWCCA & SCCA* member
86 190 2.3-16
83 944 ITS Racer