Hey, how are ya?
This is "krahe" w/ the Euro 5 spd. twin turbo. W124. Remember how you said
you'd be interested in helping me with tech. info. for a buildup? Well, I
have a few questions, if you're still offering.

I just got the TEC II kit from Bekkers in the other day and the manual in
yesterday. The kit is missing the injectors, which makes sense as they
would have to be sized (flow wise) to the engine. In trying to figure out
what size I've run into a few problems. First, according to Electromotive,
I have to "know" the horsepower rating of the engine. This is of course why
I got their system, I don't know what it will be tuned properly. But, for
very rough estimate I hooked up a G-Tech accelerometer to do a few
acceleration runs. For this I need to know the vehicle weight. I used the
4185 lb. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) that was on the door jamb. But
I subtracted 720 lbs for the 4 people (of the 5 seating capacity) that
weren't in the car. Is that the correct method? I figured using 4185 lb.
would give me a false high H.P. rating.

With the G-Tech I averaged ~225 H.P., which is measured at the rear wheels.
Figure in an 11% loss of power through the drivetrain and that's ~250 H.P.
at the fly wheel. Are these realistic approximations? I will try to find a
weigh-station to get a more accurate vehicle weight.

So, the real questions are what rating injectors would be best? And are
there any offered by Mercedes that will fit directly into the spots where
the existing injector valves are? And at what price?

Also, I want to start looking for a used long block for the 3.6 L build up,
what should I look for in a donor engine? Any particular years that had
larger heads? stronger components? better design? And what size block
should I start with? 3.0L? Is there a "race" head offered for a 3.6L?
Again, at what price? Or might I be better off having a 5 angle job done to
an existing head?

I know these are a ton of questions, but I would most definitely appreciate
any input you could give.

Thanks, Erik.

P.S.- You said you are thinking about assembling a 3.6L for yourself, where
would one get a shop manual for all the proper torque spec.s etc.? And
would you be interested in using my application as a test-bed for doing a
build-up?

--Umm, I originally sent this to Benzmac and he decided to post it here, so if anyone else would like to chime in, feel free.

Thanks, Erik :~) --

[This message has been edited by krahe (edited 06-11-99).]

Erik,
The standard loss through the drivetrain of an automatic is about 20%, the standard loss through a manual is about 17%-18%. If your making 225HP at the rear wheels your closer to 265-275HP at the crank. (since yours is a manual)

The curb weight of a 260E or 300E should be around 3200 lbs.

I'll defer the injectors to Benzmac's wisdom. Does the system come with upgraded fuel pump(s)? Just a thought....

I would start with the M103 block from any garden variety 300E or even a CE_24 but 4-valve heads don't seem to help turbos much. I'd probably go with an AMG or Brabus kit. Shop around and price out what it would take to buy the finished product vs building it from scratch yourself. In addition to the usual tuners I know a company that specializes in go-fast valvework. They are located out in CA. If your interested email me and I'll send you all the info.

Sounds like a helluva project. Can't wait to hear how it turns out. If you need anything further, you know how to reach us.

Hope this helps...Lee

O.K.-

Got to a weigh station, can you believe 3470 lb.s? The sum of the weights at each axle, is this the correct method? (A 54% to 46% front to rear bias) Which is about what weight I originally estimated, and with a 17% drivetrain power loss (thank you, I always thought 10 to 15% was the norm) that puts it in the 260-270 H.P. range. Electromotive advertises about another 17% gain with their system over stock, so that puts me ~300 H.P. Any suggestions for what flow rate injectors?

If not, I am still interested if MB makes higher flow injectors that would bolt in and how would I go about finding their exact spec.s?

Thanks again, Erik :~)

Krahe, I think if I was building this project I would spend the 2grand and use the Felpro injection/ignition system that is very adaptable and is EFI instead of CIS. This would give limitless tuning expansion. And you will probably exceed 300HP with the proper fuel/ignition setup.

------------------
Benzmac:
ASE CERTIFIED MASTER AUTO TECHNICIAN
LEAD TECHNICIAN FOR 14 BAY FACILITY
MERCEDES SPECIALIST 8 YRS
PARTNER IN MERCEDESSHOP.COM

O.K.-
I gotta ask, EFI is Electronic Fuel Injection correct? But, CIS is...? And what's the difference? Fel-Pro? The same folks that do the gaskets?

Maybe I didn't research what was out there enough, I did the panic maneuver after the break in and initial tuning didn't resolve the running issues.

Talked to Electromotive and they suggest injectors that flow at 32.75 lb/hour. Does MB make such an injector (or something close 32.5-33 lb/hour)? And if not, what are the dimensions that I'd need to have injectors to fit in the 2.6L?

Thanks again, Erik

------------------

CIS is the constant injection system or mechanical fuel injection. I think for the best performance you will need a pro to help you in choosing and installing the proper fuel injection/igition system. There is a company called Applied Technologies. Their phone # is 1-864-972-3800. They are in SC and are very knowledgeable on turbo tuning.

------------------
Benzmac:
ASE CERTIFIED MASTER AUTO TECHNICIAN
LEAD TECHNICIAN FOR 14 BAY FACILITY
MERCEDES SPECIALIST 8 YRS
PARTNER IN MERCEDESSHOP.COM

Benzmac-
The Electromotive system I chose uses selenoid (sp?) type injectors which makes it an EFI system, right? Mechanical fuel injection uses nozzles which are routed from a fuel distributor, like what I have on it now.

Unless there is something else I'm missing.

From the spec.s of the software that I got with it I should be able to really tweak a lot of parameters and dial the engine in.

I also downloaded an injector program that "sizes" injectors and has other functions. According to the software (which sized the injectors about the same as Electromotive did) the fuel requirement is 30 lb.s/hour. What is the feul pump capacity of a stock MB fuel pump? Something like 43.5lb.s/hour? If anyone is interested in the program I can e-mail it to them (it was a freebie, but I lost the site where I found it).

Erik :~)

This sounds like the correct type of EFI that I was referring to. Good luck with the install. I do think that the stock fuel delivery will be fine. Just be sure to set the pressures in line with the fuel pressure regulator.

------------------
Benzmac:
ASE CERTIFIED MASTER AUTO TECHNICIAN
LEAD TECHNICIAN FOR 14 BAY FACILITY
MERCEDES SPECIALIST 8 YRS
PARTNER IN MERCEDESSHOP.COM