R129 - Soft top manufacturers - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

peter serbanica · #31 03-02-2007, 07:47 PM

Very true, but wopavin is as good as plastic made in USA. Besides, if you use the hardtop, your top will last just as long. That is my experience. I have installed and replaced plastic windows on the 129 tops since 1990!!!!!

LeaUK · #32 03-11-2007, 07:37 AM

Hi Peter

Quote:

Very true, but wopavin is as good as plastic made in USA

you mean plastic made in the USA is as good as the original German Wopavin I suspect.

Thanks for adding your experiences of the USA material, do you know the Manufacturer and brand? - I suspect it's Ultralite BUV.

Taking a look at the photos of this material way back in this thread and the owner's personal comments, it looks flimsy and softer to me which may have audible consequences at higher speeds..?

Cheers
Lea

peter serbanica · #33 03-15-2007, 06:50 AM

Hello, I have been installing tops for over 35 years. Wopavin plastic windows are ok, but will crack sooner, because of stress on folding. Wopavin is too thick. I have replaced many with US plastic and they outlast the top. Just my experience. 862-222-4618

stargazerplus · #34 03-15-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter serbanica

Hello, I have been installing tops for over 35 years. Wopavin plastic windows are ok, but will crack sooner, because of stress on folding. Wopavin is too thick. I have replaced many with US plastic and they outlast the top. Just my experience. 862-222-4618

This is interesting! My SL windows have cracked where the hood folds and the car is only six years old. I too was wondering about non original replacement plastic. The guy I am going to use has an excellent reputation (STCS in Coventry UK) and uses thinner 1mm plastic to replace. The price is relatively cheap at £265. I will let you know how I get on. I know Lea has done lots of research into the replacement of the hood but I am not so obsessed with originality just an as new look and if the thinner plastic is less prone to cracking that is fine by me. I don't think the thickness of the plastic will have much if any impact on noise!

LeaUK · #35 03-15-2007, 08:22 PM

Hi Guys

If you look further up in this thread there is a guy actually using the thinner USA Ultralite Buv windows, have a chat with him before making that final decision? Maybe there is no audible change, maybe they last longer - maybe they don't.

Just one small point, I'm not interested in originality for originality's sake, but there is minimal data available proving that Ultralite is a suitable replacement, and that's my concern. I can say with 'normal' use and within the UK climate Wopavin lasts 15 years so, for me that swings the vote easily. Of course windows are only a part of the equation when considering buying a new hood and hopefully this thread walks readers right down that path too, providing documented reasons and experiences.

However, the proof's in the pudding so to speak and so I'll post as many shots of my refit and the manufacturing facility of KHM when I'm there

I look forward to your reports, please do keep us all informed

Regards
Lea

stargazerplus · #36 03-16-2007, 02:28 PM

Lea, I wasn't being critical, in fact I have tremendous admiration for the amount of research you have done on this topic. I'm just interested in what Peter S has to say on using thinner plastic which is less prone to cracking. I am absolutely astounded at the state of my original wopavin after only six years, especially the splitting which has happened exactly where the hood folds. I think the main problem is someone folding it when it was really cold! I am running my SL on somewhat of a budget, and although it is in fantastic condition, I think I will go for the cheaper plastic windows. By the time they expire maybe I will be ready for a complete hood and will probably go to KHM for that! Thanks for your hard work doing all that research! I WILL let you all know how the retrim goes!

stargazerplus · #37 03-21-2007, 05:20 AM

I had my windows replaced by STCS in Coventry yesterday. I watched Tony do the some of the job and was impressed by his knowledge. The job is first class and you wouldn't know the hood had been removed! OK, the material is not original but still feels sturdy. Cost £265 fitted. Tony is also subcontracted work from carhood.com. He measured the windows and the original is 1.5mm whereas his replacement is 1mm so should be less prone to splitting.

LeaUK · #38 03-21-2007, 03:41 PM

Glad everything went well and looking forward to hearing your feedback about audible noise from these new windows. BTW - can you confirm that the material is Ultralite Buv?

One point though, comparing these materials is like comparing apples with bananas, so I would be cautious when implying improved resistance to splitting just because the material is thinner - as that's rather broad reaching.

I also understand that Buv is especially sensitive to heat and so its flexibility characteristics will change significantly. When it's hot and sunny (+30degC) you will note ripples and distortion. That's what I've read but again please post a few shots in the summer

Hope you will assist in our quest and post a few piccies for all to see - would be very appreciated.

Lea

peter serbanica · #39 03-21-2007, 04:10 PM

I still think GAHH is the best choice. I have been installing all of their products for over 20 years!!! Great quality plus great customer service.

LeaUK · #40 03-26-2007, 02:31 AM

Ah, you are a reseller....

Looking forward to a sample of pictures in the hot weather.

Cheers
Lea

peter serbanica · #41 03-26-2007, 07:04 AM

Hello, I am not a reseller that is I don't buy and sell tops I do, install all tops vintage to present. I have tried them all. On sat. I installed a top on a Boxster. The customer drove here to New Jersey from Virginia. He bought top an EBAY. Made from Rich and famous auto top. The bow listings already came unglued!!!! No one is perfect, but GAHH stands behind their product and if top fails, they will compensate the professional installer. btw. If You pay for my flight and pay my room and board, I will do the labor installational for free!!!! Peter

ps. It gets hotter in the US somestimes 35+ C. The plastic does not wrinkel or fail!!!!! Ultralight

SunGuy · #42 03-27-2007, 02:12 PM

Peter,

Thanks for all of your input on tops, quality providers, and materials used in manufacturing. In my opinion, nothing beats hands on experience of a professional installer that has actually worked with the various manufacturer's products. After all, you've got us pesky, picky customers to deal with!

To that end, I've been speaking to another top manufacturer on the West Coast from whom I purchased my 107 top and was very pleased. I also have a '99 SL500 whose top has seen better days shall we say and I will replace it this summer. Since this discussion about window thickness on the 129's came about, I asked my contact about the Wopavin vs. Ultralite, and his answer was...

The plastic windows are made by Ultralite brand .50 gage. I use a heavy sheet to match the factory window quality. The rest of the tops we make it with .40 gage plastic

Based on your experience, is the .50 guage appropriate or should the thinner .40 be used? Thanks in advance for your help-

Bob

BenzToy · #43 03-27-2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter serbanica

Hello, I am not a reseller that is I don't buy and sell tops I do, install all tops vintage to present. I have tried them all. On sat. I installed a top on a Boxster. The customer drove here to New Jersey from Virginia. He bought top an EBAY. Made from Rich and famous auto top. The bow listings already came unglued!!!! No one is perfect, but GAHH stands behind their product and if top fails, they will compensate the professional installer. btw. If You pay for my flight and pay my room and board, I will do the labor installational for free!!!! Peter

ps. It gets hotter in the US somestimes 35+ C. The plastic does not wrinkel or fail!!!!! Ultralight

And how much can room and board be?

I live in an unserviced area

. ie: no dealers within 150 miles.
Although there are people that claim to know,
I haven't found one I'd trust.
Temps. here reach 100F on a regular basis.
How do the seams fare?

SunGuy · #44 03-28-2007, 05:18 PM

Peter

Thanks very much for your reply on the correct plastic window thickness for these tops. Living in Florida makes worrying about the impact of cold weather on these windows mostly irrelevant. I expecially appreciate your comment about the blocks/stops in the top storeage area that prevent the top from 'over folding'......I'll check that out later today.

Bob

LeaUK · #45 03-31-2007, 09:14 AM

Peter

Many thanks for joining the discussion, being able to speak with one with so much experience is great news.

For your information here's why I chose KHM over other manufacturers and fitters:

1. They supply a variety (including 107 tops) to Mercedes Benz for resale by Benz to Benz's customers
2. They manufacture and fit
3. They (like yourself) have much experience in fitting Mercedes tops
4. There cannot be any discrepancies between manufacturer and fitter as they are one
5. The original R129 hood designer from Benz, assisted with the KHM R129 design, development and production of the KHM hood
6. Good price
7. Are able to fit all worn accessories/spare parts on-site
8. Can fit within 1.5 working days
9. Based in Europe so easy access (for Europeans)
10. Original materials and thickness used

I'm also not saying that the OEM material is the most suitable, as we can all appreciate that material science has significantly moved on since circa '89, however based on the evidence gathered (up until you kindly joined in) and specifically a member posting pictures and commenting on the unusual 'soft' characteristics found around 30C displayed by Ultralite; it's a little concerning.

Thanks for the visit offer though - much appreciated.
Lea