Stuck, need help

I am doing a complete timing chain, chain rail replacement, something I now wish I hadn't started myself. But at this point, I just can't get the timing chain cover to budge. I am relatively sure I have every bolt out, have used penetrating oil on it, tapped it with a plastic hammer, gently pried on it, and it is not moving.....any suggestions??

[ctaylor738]

Have you done the oil pan/oil pump part?

engine is in the car, I am using a Haynes (and also a Chilton) manual, both say to just remove the bolts from the cover that connect to the oil pan...should I remove the entire oil pan??

Originally Posted by ctaylor738

Have you done the oil pan/oil pump part?

What are these parts? Can I find out about this on this site, I haven't been able to so far.

[350SL4spd]

The oil pump is bolted to the timing cover. And the oil pump chain runs through the timing cover.

You opened one hell of a can of worms.

Only once have I tried to do a cover-off timing chain job (not just feeding the chain through) on a 450SL and that was because it had obliterated all the guides. Even on that one I lifted the engine and dropped the oil pan. And that was a *****.

I did manage to get the timing cover off with oil pan unbolted & resting on the cross-member, but it took an hour to unbolt the oil pump through the 1/2in gap btw the cover & the pan. Then I had to carefully cut the oil pump chain with an angle grinder w/o compromising either the pan or the cover.

And even then it was a real ***** to put it back together.

I'd never do it again w/o pulling the motor. The only way is to feed it, but if you need to change the guides, pull the motor. It can be done, but it's one hell of a headache and it can't be done w/o an engine hoist.

Good luck my friend.

[Gurunutkins]

i have attached a picture of the engine with the timing cover off so you can see what wdba means. the double chain for timing is inside the single chain that runs the oil pump (the cog is on the outside) and there is a section of the timing cover that runs behind the oil pump so there is no way to easily remove the cover. if you havent damaged anything and dont need to do the bottom rails (they seldom break) then put it all together (just make sure you havent disloged the 2 o rings that seal the water ways) and do the chain replacement by feeding it through the cogs and just replace the top 3 guides. I have more pics if you need but its a PITA of a job without pulling the engine and the oil pan. Ive shrunk it down to where it fits for uploading to the forum but if its too small to see email me and I will send it to you full size
cheers
Barri

[Gurunutkins]

last pic is really small so hope this is better otherwise just email me for it

[Roncallo]

Why are you pulling your timing chain cover. Most people dont change the lower rails and I havent heard of them giving any problems. The rest of the rails and chain can be done without pulling the cover. But if you do pull these pieces it would be benificial to all of us if you could post the vehical milage and pictures of each lower rail plus an assesment of the oil pump chain condition.

John Roncallo

Engine was rattling when I started it until it got some oil pressure, so I read the posts and figured I needed a timing chain and rail replacement. Called a recommended place to order parts, was told that it would be easier to do it from the front with the timing cover off. I read the Haynes manual and the (waste of time) Chilton and it looked like that was something I could do. So, I have taken everything off the front of the engine, busted the bolt on the front of crankshaft loose using a socket and breakder bar witha pipe handle wedged against the front undercarriage and used the started to break it free (who knows how much damage that caused, it didn't sound friendly, but it was the recommended procedure from the parts guy) and now have ended up where I am, with a mess, and a LOT of parts I am never going to use. Probably the best I can hope is that the water jacket seals don't leak and that if I can get all of this back together and then go ahead and do a chain and rail replacement like I thought I should have done in the first place. I don't know if I should try that and see if it works out or have someone pull the engine and do it that way. I have no idea if I have damaged anything in the area of the timing cover, I dont' think so, but I don't know how to tell if I have and I don't know how to do anything about water seals potentially leaking once I bolt this back together. Nope, I'm not very happy about this and now am just trying to figure out how to minimize the damage. Any suggestions (other than stick to my day job) are appreciated.

Thanks, at this point I couldn't agree more. Now I am trying to figure out my "exit strategy."

[350SL4spd]

Hmm.

You have two basic options.

Slap it all back together and hope for the best. The best being that you haven't damaged the oil pump chain (if you have and you drop the chain 1k, 5k, 10k mi down the road it's bye-bye engine, like right now). Or damaged the oil pan gasket, or any of the lower rails, or either head gasket. Or that nothing is trashed in relation to the crank/balancer bolt. And hoping that you haven't gotten very much dirt/crud/a socket in the down in the oil pan or in the water jacket (those donuts were in very bad shape on the last 450 timing cover I pulled off)... If it was my topless beater that I was planning on rebuilding the engine in 10k mi anyway I might take that route.

Otherwise:

Option two. Rent a hoist with an angle option, pull the driveshaft (you probably could use a new flex disc anyway), drop all the exhuast hangers, pull the motor/tranny mounts (replace 'em while yr at it), pull the radiator/condenser coil, lift/tilt the engine until you can get the oil pan out (the car will have to be jacked up to give the tranny room to tilt), then get the front cover off. You'll know everything is great for the next 100k mi, but you'll probably be too tired to care . The engine doesn't have to come ALL the way out...just most of the way to get to the oil pan...

Oh yeah: Third option: Pull the front subframe to make room to get the oil pan out. If it was cracked (as some had a habit of doing, but I think it was only on the 380's) that might not be a bad route, but otherwise it's probably easier to lift the engine.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

Good Luck and post if you need help!

[ctaylor738]

So you took off a few extra pieces and now you get to put them back on. You get to do some more wrenching, which you obviously enjoy. At least you caught this before you did serious damage by wailing on the cover with a hammer and chisel.

I think since it looks like I am probably over 50% of the way to having the engine ready to come either up or out, I am going the spend some time and try to read up more and then lift it and do the motor mounts, at gasket and filter, and probably do something about the slow PS fluid leak.....that is if I can rent an engine hoist. If that doesn't work out, I will have to think of something else. Thanks for your help!

BTW, I think I need ANOTHER book, any recommendation?

[Gurunutkins]

just buy the cd its really worth it for $22. if you cannot get a hoist use a 2 ton puller over a 4 inch square beam in the roof joists of your garage (cover at least 4 of them with the 4 inch beam) its ungainly but it works. If you need pics let me know
good luck
Barri

[350SL4spd]

That's the spirit!

You can do it & your car will love you for it. My clients always balked at the cost of parts & the time involved, but they always smiled while driving when everything felt great, when they knew she'd get them there.

Let us know if you need any help or info.