1980 450SL repair recommendations

[tk0084]

Ok, I just got back from the dealer for the lower control arm recall on my car & they are recommending that I replace the subfram mounts, sway bar mounts & engine mounts. I'm not surprised on any of these but at the tone or $2600 I was a little shocked.

Additionally they are saying that the steering shock, tie rods, & drag link needs replacement as well, only $954 for this one .

I figure I can do the steering shock, tie rods, & drag link myself as I've done similar repairs before but my question is what's a reasonable price to have all of the mounts replace & does anyone know of a reliable independent in the Lake County IL area?

[deanyel]

When you take an old car like that to the dealer, and receive an exhorbitant estimate, you can't be sure if they are giving you an objective diagnosis, or are telling you a) they don't want to work on your car because they have no one to work on your car, and/or b) they think you should not fix the old car but rather buy a new car from them. You need to find a good independent shop.

[450slcguy]

Originally Posted by tk0084

they are recommending that I replace the subfram mounts, sway bar mounts & engine mounts. I'm not surprised on any of these but at the tone or $2600 I was a little shocked.

Additionally they are saying that the steering shock, tie rods, & drag link needs replacement as well, only $954 for this one .

Subframe mounts, sway bar mounts and engine mounts can all be done in a day by you and for about $300 in parts. Do some homework on the R&R and save yourself several thousands dollars. I'd like to know what the dealer is charging you for labor and parts.

A steering shock made by Bosch cost about $25 and involves removing 2 bolts
and swapping it out. 2 tie rods and a drag link cost about $160. The labor to swap them maybe 2 hours, if that. You'll need an alignment, +/- $100bucks. I'd like to know what the dealer is charging you for labor and parts.

I've done all of the above with just a little research on the procedures. With a bit of research, effort and time, you can do all the jobs yourself and save $3000 dollars.

[donbryce]

That's an outrageous price for doing 4 subframe mounts/bushings, sway bar and engine mounts, even for a dealer IMO. If you look closely, the 4 sway bar bushing bolts are easily accessed without taking anything else off. The end links and rubbers are a piece of cake, they come as a kit. Little more than a long bolt/nut with washers.
The sub-frame bushings (4) can be done with the engine supported and the subframe lowered. If you make up a support bar to hold the engine up (as a chain from the front eyehook), or from a ceiling hoist (chainfall or whatever), the entire subframe is easily dropped and access to the motor mounts made super simple. All the suspension parts you mention are removed to do this, and can be replaced on re-assembly in no time at all.
By all means, get an indy to do these jobs. You can price the parts right here on Fastlane, for comparison to dealer's, and should you decide to do the work yourself, searching here will get you almost every procedure needed, if only to make sure the indy knows what he's doing....

[DanielG]

Originally Posted by tk0084

does anyone know of a reliable independent in the Lake County IL area?

The following place was recommended to me (I have not tried them):

GOLZ Motors
450 Lake Cook Road 2, Deerfield, IL 60015
www.golz.com

(847) 317-9880

I used to go to the following place when it was in Highland Park, they are now in Deerfield (I could not find an address but I think it is south of Deerfield Road on Wilmot in Deerfield):

Erichs Foreign Car
Deerfield, IL 60015
phone: (847) 831-4780

I would appreciate knowing what you think of these places if you choose to go there.

I was at ******** not to long ago and saw that the list price for the larger of the two scheduled maintances was over $1100 -- and except for spark plugs I could not see any serious parts or work going into that "inspection" -- dealership is a joke!

We should have a lake county get together!

Good luck!

[tk0084]

Thanks for all the replies.

They are charging $150 per hour for labor. The parts on the Steering job are $427 ($230 for the tie rods, $81 for the steering damper/shock, & $116 for the drag link/center link) & then 3.5 hours of labor.

I already ordered the parts from another site (I won't mention here out of respect) for $123. This is the easy job. They also wanted $160 to align the car. My dad taught me how to align a car when doing tie rods when we did them on my Expedition years ago. So for $123 I'll get everything done in one afternoon w/the old man (thanks dad, even if you don't know it yet, lol).

For the mounts they had subframe $312 & then 3 other mount kits listed, one at $123 & 2 others at $188. They estimated 12.5 hours of labor for this job.

I don't have the right resources to do the mounts on my own but when I'm doing the other parts I'll discuss w/my dad (I don't think he has the right tools) & see what he thinks. More than likely I'll go to an indy for this job.

Thanks for all the feedback & sources for parts & mech's.

I'm all for a Lake County get together. You can usually find me on Friday nights at the cruise night @ the Meyers in Rolling Meadows on the corner of Golf & Algonquin. There's usually 500 - 700 cars there. I'm the blue 450SL always parked next to a white '05 vette convertible (dad's car).

[Roncallo]

That price is not unusual for an MB dealer. But it goes to show just how much you can save by doing it yourself. First off I recommend using genuine MB parts even though they are 4 times the price. If you tell Phil at Fastlane he will get you the real stuff. All parts to overhaul the entire front end using genuine MB parts will cost about $2000. That will include:

Upper control arm bushings.
Upper ball joints or boots for the 560 series.
Lower control arm bushings.
Lower ball joints
Tie rods
Center link
Steering Damper
Idler Arm Kit
Steering Coupler.
2 new steering coupler bolts
2 new rotors
Brake pads
Wheel bearing kits
MB wheel bearing grease
Engine mounts
Set of Bilstiens

Now how easy is it to do.

You remove the entire subframe assembly with rotors brakes and everything. That involves
1) Supporting the engine (need special tool or twin 4"x4" Douglas fir with your imagination.
2) Raise car as high as you can
3) Remove 2 subframe to engine mount bolts (need long 10mm hex bit)
4) Disconnect brake lines and remove line retaining clips.
5) Disconnect brake pad wear harnesses
6) For 560 and some 380 series also disconnect wheel speed sensors.
7) Remove tie rods.
8) Disconnect sway bar at control arms
9) Remove shock retaining nuts in engine compartment
10) Securely place jack under subframe
11) Now get some help even if you have to pay some one for 10 minutes.
12) Remove 4 subframe retaining bolts.
13) Lower subframe slowly with your assistants help to stabilize it.

Now you can just work away on it on the subframe support stand if your a NASCAR team, or on the floor if your me.

You may find yourself faced with the challenge of removing the springs. Use a 3/4" threaded rod with 2 nuts and washers and two 3/4" plates with 7/8" holes drilled through the plates. As an alternative you can purchase a spring compressor for about $500 and you will still be ahead.

When your done your car will feel like a new 107.

[aublutiger]

Originally Posted by tk0084

Additionally they are saying that the steering shock, tie rods, & drag link needs replacement as well, only $954 for this one .

I realize you said you were going to do this work yourself, but I ended up paying a local independent MB shop $400 to replace the steering shock, tie rods, drag link, as well as inspect the car, change out the oil sending unit, oil change and transmission flush, then alignment. Fortunately, that was all I needed and when I took mine in for the recall after I had completed all of that the dealer said nothing and just made the subframe repair. If it were me...go get a second opinion/estimate from an indie!

[tk0084]

Originally Posted by aublutiger

I realize you said you were going to do this work yourself, but I ended up paying a local independent MB shop $400 to replace the steering shock, tie rods, drag link, as well as inspect the car, change out the oil sending unit, oil change and transmission flush, then alignment. Fortunately, that was all I needed and when I took mine in for the recall after I had completed all of that the dealer said nothing and just made the subframe repair. If it were me...go get a second opinion/estimate from an indie!

I plan on doing just that for the remainder of the stuff but I'm more than certain that all of these parts are in need of changing. The car sat for 2 yrs before it was given to me & I'm 99.99% positive that none of these items have ever been replaced in 28 yrs.

I was actually shocked that they didn't recommend more. I was expecting to hear the exhaust system needed replacement, shocks, & maybe some fuel lines.

I plan on going to a indie after I get the tie rods & recall done.

[Mistress]

Get a second opinion from and indie. Check and see what kind of shape the timing chain is in while your at it.

[tk0084]

Originally Posted by Mistress

Get a second opinion from and indie. Check and see what kind of shape the timing chain is in while your at it.

Timing chain is in good shape. Had the head covers off this spring to replace the gaskets (Dad use to be a mechanic & was over when I did it).

[Gurunutkins]

Mistress is right, its not that it looks OK but check the stretch in the chain (after 28 years even sitting it will stretch under its own weight, its over 6 ft long) and also if you have the plastic chain rails they just out-gas and get brittle whether the engine runs or not.

really good article on this site on how to do it
http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/M117TimingChain
cheers
Barri