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#1
10-21-2011, 10:26 AM
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Dropping the subframe
Looking for some opinion and a sanity check here. This is going to be a bit lengthy, my apologies. I've spent a week of evenings trying to change my motor mounts and have not had a good time. The bolts from underneath are completely frozen, my guess is they have become one with the rubber mounts. A week of soaking them and I only managed to strip-out the head of one of them. Bought a set of Sock It Outs, good tool but didn't help. When I jack up my engine, the mounts separate completely into two pieces meaning there is no physical connection between the engine and the subframe. I'm starting to think that dropping the subframe is going to be the easiest path. I recently changed my subframe bushings and stabilizer bushings so I know those will come out easily. I'm due to change my brake lines and fluid so I can do those at the same time. I have some tube steel laying around that I can weld up a traverse bar to support the engine. This leads to a few questions:
Am I heading down the right path here? Is it worth changing the control arm bushings while I have it out? This would involve messing with the springs, which I'm not averse to, I would just need to plan for it. If my assumption is correct, what seemed like the harder job (dropping the subframe) may turn out to be the easier way to do the engine mounts. Matt.
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1984 380 SL (Helga) 
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#3
10-21-2011, 01:56 PM
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...might be overkill
I recently pulled the engine and subframe out of my '83 380SL and I had a similar situation with the engine mounts where they completely separated.
I believe that you might be better off with not dropping the subframe, but rather taking the engine support brackets off the engine which would allow the separated motor mounts and the frozen bolt to come along with it. The process would be similar, in that you need to jack up the engine a bit and provide a support across the fenders to carry the weight while you disconnect things. The engine support bracket is four bolts to the block. (My engine is out so I can't check for clearance to get at the bolts, but I think it is doable) You'll also need to take the engine shocks off. The frozen bolts would be dramatically easier to deal with on the bench than in the car. If you decide to pull the subframe, it's not all that bad. Remove the tie rod and tie rod ends, remove the brake calipers and hoses, remove the stabilizer bar, remove shocks... Then use a couple of floor jacks to support it while you take the subframe mounting bolts out and then carefully lower it. I'm anticipating needing to do some mods to the subframe, and need it to support the full weight of the new engine during mockup, so I built a quick frame to make working on it easier (and protecting the rotors and dust covers)  Good luck!
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#4
10-21-2011, 07:57 PM
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Hi lads, how you doing
I just did this on my car, although my engine mounts were in one piece ,they were quite shagged, so it was easier to drop the subframe. Trust me when i tell ya that i'm no expert but it did make life so much easier with the subframe on the floor, brake hoses, subframe mounts, engine mounts, anti-roll bushes, top and bottom wishbone mounts and shiney new bilsteins. I have read here and the other place about the springs on the front of these cars and now i understand the repeated warning regarding the power coiled up in those springs, they are dangerous, so powerful, don't underestimate them. Nice job all in all, and it sure does improve the ride. Good luck Pete
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#5
10-21-2011, 08:11 PM
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First of all, anyone asking for a sanity check that owns a 107 and works on it themselves should already know the answer to that.
 Second; sometimes you just have to take the long road to get somewhere. It sounds like you may have bits that are not reachable with the subframe in place. If you need to get the thing out in the open in order to open up the industrial size can of whoop-a55 on a bolt or two, you need to be prepared to do the whole job. You do not want to have to go in there again. Get your control arm bushings, subframe mounts, engine shocks, brake lines, shocks, and whatever else you're going to need before you get busy on this. The springs are capable of storing what is technically referred to as One Hell Of A Lot of kinetic energy. You are going to need a way to control that. The spring compressors available at the Auto Parts Store for rent are not going to be capable of surviving the experience. The coils of the springs are as thick as your thumb, and letting one of those puppies loose WILL cause damage. Like taking out the neighbors' dog house. After it goes through your body, the garage wall, two block fences and a barbecue island. Not a pretty sight.  Look around here for a thread or two on the springs, you'll be ready for that part of the job. Good luck, Scott
__________________
Remember, it's not just a car. It's an Adventure.
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#6
10-21-2011, 10:04 PM
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Rockin' the cradle
Just back in from the garage and I got the cradle built and in place. I just need to get the pieces to connect the engine to it and I'll be all set.
Thanks for the great responses and the encouragement. You reaffirmed what I was thinking and RadioTek summed it up with taking the long road. Sometimes the long way is the easier way (easy being a relative term). I'm hopeful that once the subframe is out the engine mount bolts will be easier to work on, at least I'll have more options. I've attached a picture of the engine cradle I made since I wasn't able to find many pictures of what people have made in the past. Hopefully this helps someone. It's made out of some scraps from an ornamental fence I built for around my yard. Finally, regarding the sanity check; does anyone else find themselves talking to their cars, especially when they're not cooperating? Matt.
__________________
1984 380 SL (Helga)
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#7
10-21-2011, 10:43 PM
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The front coil springs are NOT scary at all.
Removing the lower shock nuts, stab link the eccentric bolts and lowering the control arm with a floor jack and they fall out. Really.
__________________
http://www.benzypalooza.com/index.htm
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#8
10-22-2011, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
OTOH, I've seen other posts that said you could use a floor jack to lower the arm, but that putting the spring back with the proper orientation and raising the arm without compressor can be even more of a problem than lowering the arm?
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#9
10-22-2011, 08:50 AM
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Nobby explained it somewhat in this thread.
Subframe Gusset Reinforcement and Bushing Replacement - Benzworld.org - Mercedes-Benz Discussion Forum Sub frame reinforcement. Do it while the sub frame is out. Much easier.
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#10
10-22-2011, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Would that'd be pretty scary with the subframe out? Good luck Pete
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#11
10-23-2011, 08:20 PM
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I just had my control arms out and the springs are not hard to remove. Take a look at the manual and follow that procedure. I'm sure they could hurt you if you aren't careful, but I really had no problem getting them out and I did it by myself.
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#12
10-23-2011, 08:41 PM
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I concur with Irshmerc that those alternate techniques are useful only if the subframe is still mounted to the car. Now I'm thinking I'll remove the springs before I drop the subframe so I can replace the LCA bushings when I weld in the gussets.
Regarding the gussets, I am going to make a cardboard template and see if I can have a local CNC shop fab them up for less than the hundred-fifty I found them for.
__________________
1984 380 SL (Helga)
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#13
10-24-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
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#14
10-24-2011, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
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#15
10-24-2011, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
__________________
1984 380 SL (Helga)
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