Info wanted on 78 450 SL

[Roger]

Interested in the pros and cons of the 78 450 SL. Search of this web site shows that location of the Cat converter was no longer a problem. Any generic problens with that year? Gas Mileage? Owners experience?

Thanks for any info.

[Benzmac]

If you are going to purchase a 107 chasis, get the 560. They built this from 1986-1989. It was the best of this chasis.

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Benzmac:
1981 280GE SWB
1987 16V
ASE CERTIFIED MASTER AUTO TECHNICIAN
SERVICE MANAGER FOR 14 BAY FACILITY
MERCEDES SPECIALIST 8 YRS
PARTNER IN MERCEDESSHOP.COM

my dad had a 75 450 sl and it was a lemon

[Aaron]

At the other end of the spectrum, I have a '77 450SL which we have owned since it was brand new and is currently showing 168,000 troublefree miles on the clock. Only major problem I ever had was with the transmission some years back, otherwise, it's been a very enjoyable (and useable) car for the nice weather months. While the 560SL is certainly the most desireable of the W107s, they're still kind of pricey, even nowadays, and for less money, you could find a very nice, low mileage 450SL. BTW, the 4.5 is plenty of engine for that car. Although heavy, it will still lift its skirt and boogie if told to. The only typical gremlin on the 4.5 was premature right camshaft wear, which was supposedly caused by infrequent oil changes.

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Rgds,
Aaron Greenberg
MB technician
Precision Motorcars, Cincinnati, Ohio
'67 250SE Cabriolet
'77 450SL
'80 300SD
'85 380SE
'89 420SEL
'93 300E 2.8
'74 Jensen Interceptor Mk.III
'81 DeLorean DMC12
'85 BMW 745i Turbo

[This message has been edited by Aaron (edited 03-26-2000).]

Hi Roger,
Road & Track published a great "Used Car Classic" article (in their regular publication) on the 107 cars - I think it was about 6 or seven years ago. It was surprisingly comprehensive, and really had me thinking about getting into one of these beauties! I would send it to you, but my collection is in storage at my parents place a couple of hours away. See if you can track it down, and if you're still interested in a couple of weeks I can probably find it and post it to you (or scan and email...).
Regards,
Nick

[Roger]

Thanke everybody for your input.
I definately have some feelers out for pre 90's SL.

Nick, I would be interested in at least the gist of the R&T article. Can't find anyone with a Mag that old here. Did the article address the 107s as a group or single out certain years or model numbers?? If so do you recollect which ones?

Thanks again for the responses. At this point I havent ruled out anything from the 70's through 89. Any one else have input?

Hi Roger,
Got your email - just haven't had a chance to get back and dig up the article. It covered all years of production of the 107, and even gave year by year breakdowns of all the significant changes made, which is especially significant for some of the 450s as they suffered a few modifications to the emmissions system that were less than ideal. I will get the article to you ASAP. If I recall, the order of ranking, in terms of desirability, was 86-89 560sl (obviously), then the 450s (but it was further broken down by year since they used a 4.5L V8 for about 10yrs or so), and the general suggestion to stay away from the 350s, particularly if the conversion to the double row timing chain had not been done. As I mentioned, I am reaching back into my memory banks for these snippets... an interesting detail that I remember is that MB is still honoring a warranty on cracking subframes, regardless of the age of the car! Anyway, I will dig it up and mail/ email it to whomever requests a copy.
And yes, info on gas mileage, acceleration, etc., is included.
Bye for now,
Nick

[This message has been edited by Nick Jamal (edited 03-30-2000).]

Don't know about the 78' but I have an 80'450SL and I love it. 110K on it and no real problems. You probably won't like the mileage though, mine only gets 10-14 to the gallon. Could be my own fault, hard to keep my foot out of it. Fun cars.
The 560 is nice but alot more money.

[John R. Boyce]

Here's a good web site for more information on the 107 cars: <http://hometown.aol.com/dquinn5735/index.html>. This site also includes the Road and Track article mentioned earlier.

There is also an active SL mailing list: sl@isn.net.

The 107 is a real classic, in my opinion. We love ours!

John R. Boyce
Bismarck, ND
1983 280SL, Euro, 5 speed

[Roger]

Thanks Nick, John, and bf for the additional info. Wow what a good article nick turned is on to!
Just what I hoped for. Again this site comes through for me.

Now... if the right 107 comes by

[stevebfl]

I remember that article it also highlighted the BMW 635 and the Porsche 928, all top models that were quality made and especially in the case of the BMW and Porsches could be purchased for a song even when that article came out.

As to my opinion. The first one you probably won't like. Before I rate the chassis let me prepare you by stating that I'm 6'4" 280 lbs. I'm really a mild mannered guy but I don't fit in a 107 SL. Also let me state that the car was built out of a 220D body and kept the same suspension except for springs and shocks till the 560 came along and made some minor changes.

Now for my opinion. The 450SE would outhandle and outperform its sexy cousin by a long shot. In 1973 MB changed the way preformance suspensions worked. But the technology never hit the SL till the 129 body in 1990. The cars rattle wander all over the road by comparison, have wind noises and every new development MB made was delayed in hitting the SL. The car sold to well to be toyed with.

With all that said (BTW you probably shouldn't listen to me as I have driven a 1984 Porsche 928 for 14 years - definitely the surperior car) the thresholds for 107 are as follows: 1974 - first US bumper model, last model without catalytic convertors, 1976 first year CIS (K-Jet)fuel system, fist year pointless ignition, VDO cruise, hydraulic valves (all big improvements), 1977 cats went under the car out of the engine compartment, 1978 was a threshold year; the interior was modernized and the A/C followed the sedan (finally)with climate control, the trunk was carpeted, 1980 was the last year of the 450 and the first year of lambda control and threeway cats (it lost performance and was one of the only MBs to regularly experience lambda surge while running properly). 1981 was the first year of the 380, it had the single row chain through 1983. The 1981 was the last year for the Chrysler type A/C servo (good riddance).

The 86 model brought the first real suspension changes and a much bigger motor.

You can really throw a wrench in these works by including european models; 280 and 350 up till 1980 when the 500 first appeared. I think the 300 first came out in 85 while the euro cars never saw the 560, topping out with some hi-performance 500 models.

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Steve Brotherton
Owner 24 bay BSC
Bosch Master, ASE master L1
26 years MB technician

[tahodgson]

Roger,
Let me echo Benzmac's sentiments (and others)...I have an '87 560...test drove a 450 and a 380, and there is no comparison. If you have any options (such as access, patience, etc.) I'd wait for a shot at a 560. They are magnificent machines, and a joy to drive. It's not a Cadillac ride, but the power is exhilarating.

Good luck!


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Tom

'87 560 SL
'74 MGB

[iozero]

I have a 1980 450SL and love it. Don't have anything to compare it with but really didn't buy it to be a dragster. I just wanted to show more class than everyone else.

BTW the Road and Track article covers just SL's from 1972 - 1989. It ranks the 560SL as most desireable, the 72-73 SL next, the 79-80SL next and the 81-83SL as last. I don't have a date on the copy of the article that I have but I believe that it came out in 1992. Don't know what month. If you send me your fax number I can try to fax it but don't know how well it will read after faxing.

Lots of good information here, but here's my .02 worth.
The 380s were crap. Avoid them. They had pitiful horsepower (about 160), wimpy single-row timing chains, and aluminum blocks that were prone to stripping the head bolt threads. They sell for about the same as a 450 or a euro 500 or 280, so there is not even a cost-related reason to buy one.
The 450s after (I believe) 1975 had the catalyst moved downstream, away from the engine compartment, rendering it no longer a problem. The 450 engines had iron blocks and will run virtually forever if properly maintained. These all had simple and reliable Bosch K-jet fuel injection and automatic transmissions, and are available for a vast range of prices, depending on the seller, condition, etc.
The 560 is the most desirable, for the reasons stated by the others who responded to the post, but are pricey. I have seen some in the Boston area with under 100,000 miles priced in the $17,000 range, but I think this is about as low as you're gonna get for a nice 560.
As for the euro models, be very careful. A lot of these were crudely modified in the 1980s in order to certify them for importation. I know nothing about the 500s, but my friend has a beautiful '85 280SL which was correctly federalized, and it is very reliable. Also, the 280 was available with a 5-speed manual transmission, if you perfer to shift yourself.
The MOST important thing you can do is bring any prospective purchase to an EXPERIENCED Mercedes technician for a thorough pre-purchase inspection. Experts like Steve or Donnie and their staffs can spot problems that general mechanics would miss. Keep in mind that Mercedes repairs can get very expensive, which makes such an inspection all the more important.
Happy hunting and good luck!
Colin

I really can only tell you of my experience with the car. First, price. I paid 9000 for it and it has 79000 miles. That engine will last along time. Second, It may not be as good as a 560 but I didnt pay 23000(that would be the price of a comparable car with the same milage. If my math is correct I got alot of money in my pocket to maintain the 450. Third, I have found alot of people to work on my car for about 20 dollars an hour and that is without little or no complaint from me on the quality of work done. Fourth, the difference is my car not going to depreciate compared to the 560. Fifth, I have owened corvettes and triumphs (tr-6} and know what a sportscar is. Iam 55 years old now and really enjoy the sunsets with my wife in Door Co. Wisconsin. I dare you to find a better value for such a beautiful car. Thanks for whats it worth. Larry