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  #1  
Old 08-25-2003, 09:29 AM
Pete Geither's Avatar
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Sportbikes and the SL.

On a beautiful ride in the country yesterday, a sportbike, I think it was a Yamaha 600, was on my tail itching to pass. I cranked it up in the twisties and saw him fade away pretty quick in the mirror. On the straight I backed off and he blew by me, but I wonder if any street bike can keep up with a good car in the tight stuff? I really have my doubts. If this is the case, I would never follow a bike thru the bends, as you would probably push him to ride over his head and results could be disasterous.
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  #2  
Old 08-25-2003, 07:38 PM
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I went through 8 bikes (125cc Hummer [actually about the only 2 cycle Harley ever carried-it was an Italian made bike] to 1,200cc Hog) before I got wise enough to give them up. I had 2 BMW's in Europe and can tell you with a fair amount of certainty that the average bike and perhaps even a really hot one ridden by even a slightly above average rider can not keep up with a powerful sports car in the mountains. Now if you are talking about professional riders I might say yes, but on the average, over a long run through mountains on the average road, the bike will probably crash. On a road course cleared of all gravel and oncomming traffic the bike will probably win but that is not always the circumstance in which the races occur.

You are wise not to follow too closely behind a bike on a windy road. They feel compelled to out run you and 99% don't have the riding skills to handle a 400 lb. 130 hp bike on curves.
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  #3  
Old 08-25-2003, 08:53 PM
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I've been an avid motorcycle rider for longer than I care to tell you guys. Do you really think bikers are dumb enough to risk their lives on only two tiny tires on a machine that can't stand upright on its own to challenge an automobile in a slalom? Of course ANY car can out manuvere a motorcycle. Check out Newton's laws of motion. Physics!!!!! Only a fool would drive a motorcyle to the edge of it's capabilities. But I seen many people push their cars far beyond their driving skills. Accidents DON"T just happen. Bottom line, you can usually survive a crash in a car. A crash on a cycle is almost always fatal. If the guy on the cycle is acting like an idiot, let it go. Don't aggregate a situation that might lead to a tragidy. Tod
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  #4  
Old 08-25-2003, 08:56 PM
elau's Avatar
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I too am a biker. I never race my bike in any circumstance. It does not need much to put you over the handle bar. And the pain just does not worth a few moments of excitement.

Friend of mine bought a Duncati last season and he mentioned that it is a bike beyond his capability, even he has been riding for years. He was right, he took a spill couple weeks ago. Broke 4 ribs, colar bone, one angle and brusied his spleen. He was only going 40, and yes, it was on a mountain road. The guard rail won and the bike was totaled.
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  #5  
Old 08-25-2003, 10:48 PM
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Huh? Are you guys smoking crack? Any rider that you are pulling away from on tight roads is not trying or simply not experienced (of course this is not rare, esp. in the US). The skilled riders will not make much of an impression since they will be by you and gone so fast.

The slalom and the track are not the real world of bumpy roads, traffic and yellow lines, of course. As usual it's the rider(driver) not the bike (car).

FWIW most cars I've come upon in the twisties that were driven aggressively - yet still at speeds that held us up - were well outside the bounds of safe driving. Way over the line, etc.

best,

Dave
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  #6  
Old 08-26-2003, 02:03 AM
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Agreed

Agreed, as an ex-biker. From 600cc up, any skilled biker should make mincemeat of any average SL500 or 600 driver. Think 0-60 mph in 3.5 seconds. The "skilled" part is important. Your average Sunday biker does not have any idea where the limits of his machine are. The skilled ones can be identified by the wear on the end of the footrests, depending on the machine. The reason I bought an SL is that I felt it was the safest reasonable alternative to a bike.

Momo
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  #7  
Old 08-26-2003, 10:53 AM
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Assuming both drivers are equally skilled and

... motorcycle has ample horsepower to keep up with SL at a certain straightline speed well above what the twisties allow - the motorcycle wins because (1) it is lighter and (2) and due to less weight and less tire surface contact area with road, it takes less effort to carve out those twists and turns which translates into quicker slalom times.

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  #8  
Old 08-26-2003, 11:12 AM
M D Nugent
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I don't know what all this talk of bikes is doing on the SL forum, but as long as it is, I may as well kill the thread by pushing it over the edge.

Here's my latest thinking on a replacement for my Yamaha (my balance isn't what it used to be):
> http://www.carcentric.com/SpitTrike.htm

Neither the Triumph nor the Morgan guys are enthused, and the Brothers of the Third Wheel aren't sure it's even a trike, so I must be onto something! (Not ON something . . . heard that one before.)

ALMOST FORGOT: There is a SL connection - I'm thinking about recycling used 117 engine timing chains and cam sprockets for the final drive!
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  #9  
Old 08-26-2003, 01:25 PM
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In my inquisitive mind, I called the Mid-Ohio race track and asked them what has turned the fastest time there, and they said the Indy cars. Power to weight ratio might be pretty close between the champ cars and the fastest bikes, so under controlled conditions at this point, it looks like the cars would rule. I know this has nothing to do with street conditions, but it seems to me that the bikes wouldn't stand a chance against a full out race car.
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  #10  
Old 08-26-2003, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PJG56
I know this has nothing to do with street conditions, but it seems to me that the bikes wouldn't stand a chance against a full out race car.
Absolutely true - of course no production vehicle would stand a chance either...esp. not one of our heavy SLs!

best,

Dave
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  #11  
Old 08-26-2003, 02:47 PM
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On the street a capable rider in any modern 600 cc sportbike will easily toss an SL to the side.
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2003, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tecqboy
Do you really think bikers are dumb enough to risk their lives on only two tiny tires on a machine that can't stand upright on its own to challenge an automobile in a slalom?
Present company excepted: YES!

The problem with fast motorbikes is that they are too cheap: all the dumbies can afford them and in my experience ride them. My road end comes down to one of my area's top driving roads; my journey to and from the pub is along this road. I have lost count of the number of imbecilic bikers I've seen. There is a death on this four mile stretch once every month. The more the merrier. they're all criminals anyway.

For more extreme views, just provoke me...
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  #13  
Old 08-26-2003, 04:24 PM
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Having been a biker and having known more than I am interested in I can tell you without hesitation that if you get up behind any but the best biker on anything less that a real racer and challange him by staying as close as possible that sooner or later he will loose it. Whether it is gravel, a too tight curve, inexperience, too fast acceleration, or any of a number of other mistakes, he will loose it before you will. And when he looses it, it is all over for him. Instant organ donor.
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  #14  
Old 08-26-2003, 04:36 PM
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Well, I sure as hell don't want to be involved in any one dying. I am making a vow to not mess with any bikes again.
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  #15  
Old 08-26-2003, 08:19 PM
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PJG56,

Like most testosterone laden young men, many of the riders of hot 'crotch rockets' let their 'cajonies' get there in the way of their brains. I know because I used to have a very hot 1962 Harley Sportster that could out run everything, and I mean everything in S. Texas in 1964. Fortunately the country side is flat and the roads are straight so I never had to worry about curves but I remember many a night layed out flat on that bike with the speedo pointing straight down, and some local hot rodder hot after me. I can't remember ever being passed. That I am alive to tell the tale only proves that there is a god.

Rick M is right that any rice rocket with more than 250cc can eat up almost any sports car on city streets as long as the race is in a straight line. To see what really happens in a city motorcycle chase watch 'Cops'. Sometimes they have an actual race and every time the cycle looses.

I rode BMW's around Europe in 1970 and 1971 and I must admit that it was fun in spite of the couple of crashes I had. Fortunately the Europeans know how to drive around bikes. But to ride a bike around the US where people don't have a clue about driving near bikes is just death waiting to happen. If you have been thrown off a bike at 60 mph and lived, thank what ever god you pray to. If you have been thrown off a bike at 60 mph and are still riding you are dumber than dirt. In my opinion bike ridders, even those with helmets are just organ donors waiting to happen.

And that's my soap box oration for the day.
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