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lynn tassin 11-05-2003 11:26 AM

Consider This Before Buying Sl's
 
Ive had a 380 sl for 3 months now and its only been out of the shop for a period of about 9 days. 1981 with 79k on it. Ive changed all manner of things on it and still does not work. I was so excited to get it and now find myself in the biggest nightmare of my life. It is now at its 3rd dealership and still broken. I have learned the following and I think you should consider this before EVER buying one.

I've talked to 6 sl owners at the dealership while visiting my car. They brag about how much they have spent on their car "THIS MONTH" and seem think its funny. One guys says 'Yeah its usually a few hundred to a few thousand each month, but hey thats just part of the game with these."

I have discovered that these cars are for the wealthy who have not only lots of time for aggravation, but lots of money to spend. Every part they change on this car is a minimum of $500.00

If you are an everyday Joe, DO NOT BUY ONE OF THESE. They are unreliable, costly and from the time you sit in it to the time you get out you wonder what will break today. Spare yourself some headaches and lots of money and buy something new. Im not bitter about it,, just tired of all of the expense and aggravation. Dont make the mistake I have made. Its really really not worth it. There is no Quality in these cars

jjrodger 11-05-2003 11:40 AM

So far, so good with mine... My pal's '81 500SL seems pretty robust, too.

fahrgewehr2 11-05-2003 12:05 PM

Well you do realize this car is 23 years old, right? And that it was a very expensive car during its time? And that all of those expensive parts that made up a very expensive car, are still going to be very expensive today!?

What it sounds like, is that you failed to do your homework before you bought what is a pricey car to maintain.

Why don't tell what problems you are having, and perhaps this forum can help you. Use the tech help forum.

On a positive note, the car will qualify for ANTIQUE plates in a couple of years, and that could save you some money on insurenace if you don't drive everyday.

Mike

lynn tassin 11-05-2003 12:27 PM

If expensive to maintain means waiting for the next part to break, thats not maintenance thats just shoddy. It is a constant expense and everyone I have spoken to has similar stories. If you havent had problems yet, I fear your # might be next

lynn tassin 11-05-2003 12:29 PM

I have one of the many problems already listed on the forum under 380 jumping on idle. Im just trying to save the next guy. I wish someone had done the same for me.

The Black Guy 11-05-2003 01:11 PM

I have had my 83 380SL for almost 4 year. After a timing chain replacement, have not had any major trouble.

Usually in the shop once a year for small items that I am too lazy to fix myself. Will be in this Friday to have a new airpump installed. Could do it myself in less that two hours, but lazy.

ericdee 11-05-2003 02:41 PM

I've had major trouble!!! You name it I've replaced it. Next on the list is a new set of springs. There is always something.

It's been great for the last year or so, but let's face it any car of that age is going to need TLC.

A friend of mine once said to me that I'd never sell it. I asked him why he said that and he replied; you'll have too much money in it.

I laughed, I'm not laughing anymore.:rolleyes:

Pete Geither 11-05-2003 03:02 PM

I'm knocking on wood here and not making any judgements, but mine has been pretty trouble free. Two distributor caps and rotors and a fuel filter have been it in 6 thousand miles. Car had 31K on it when I bought it. If it starts to cause me grief I'll unload it in a hurry.

lynn tassin 11-05-2003 04:09 PM

This is my point. I have friends that have really old cars like fords and toyotas. What they do is truly maintenance ie oil change etc and rarely have a part break.. When it does its very inexpensive to fix. They're spending alot more time on the road than I am. Even when my car IS running, I dont hold my head up high, cause Im waiting for the other shoe to fall. I actually feel mostly embarrased by the car, cause I never know when or where its going to leave me. What should be bringing me great joy, I find just constantly has me on edge. As one MB mechanic told me.." I can maintain this car for you everyday of the week, but you still better not drive too far in this car in case it breaks.. That should have told me all I needed to know about the quality of this car, 23 year old parts or not

RickM 11-05-2003 05:28 PM

Lynn,

It sounds like most of the problem is with the mechanics. The CIS system is not an easy one to deal with, even for a Bosch certified tech. A dealership most likely does not maintain a staff that is capable of dealing with issues on a car of this age.

Try and find an independent Bosch certified shop. One that will do a bit more investigation before using the "wholesale" parts replacement approach. Taking pot shots in the dark will indeed become very expensive.

Even for a DIY type these cars require alot of attention.

lynn tassin 11-05-2003 05:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Im am going to fix all problems this week then this car is on the auction block in the dc area soon. I am enclosing pics. If there are any rich guys here or mb mechanics who have lots of money or need some extra aggravation please contact me. Its just not worth it. I'll be at the Infiniti dealership on Monday for a FX45 and free of all this crap. DO NOT BUY THESE CARS

ericdee 11-05-2003 05:57 PM

Lynn,

That car looks pretty clean.

Oh well we'll miss you.

lynn tassin 11-05-2003 05:58 PM

Having made this decision I feel 100 % better already. Once this repair is done, I am positive that the car is good for at least 5 days before something else brakes. PLease call if interested

lynn tassin 11-05-2003 06:17 PM

1 Attachment(s)
another pic

deanyel 11-05-2003 06:24 PM

This sounds like the car from Ammityville - I think I'll pass. But I thnk you're basically on to something - a used Mercedes like that is best owned by a DIYer. If you're just looking for transportation and not at all interested in working on the thing you're better off with a new car - any new car. It's not just the labor cost but the fact that most shops charge absurd prices for the parts. But on the other hand if you enjoy working on it, buy parts mail order, it can be both economical transportation and a source of enjoyment. Some of us are more likely to get annoyed at a new car - the darn things provide nothing to tinker with.

lynn tassin 11-05-2003 06:27 PM

I agree but Im not one of them. If there are any tinkerers in the DC area fel free to contact me

cbdo 11-05-2003 07:07 PM

Your results may vary...
 
Actually, my experience to date has been that there are specific things to be expected at certain points, and a few known weaknesses to be addressed either preventively or when they happen. In my case, I didn't know enough to ask the right questions when I bought mine, and therefore have done the timing chain/guides/tensioner, steering box and the radiator, in addition to a major maintenance and replacing shocks which I more or less expected. I added a few thousand in bills onto the purchase price, but it's still appraised at more than I've spent, and it's fundamentally been fairly well taken care of in the past. Now it's pretty much up to snuff, except for brakes (eventually needed for any car) due next Spring, and a new top (eventually due for any convertible).

Having said that, it's never left me immobile anywhere, and it's been my daily driver from May until now. It fires up immediately, runs faultlessly, and entertains me constantly. I love driving it and expect to hang onto it for a decade or two. I'm about to put it away and drive my away-at-college daughter's Jetta for the winter, and I'm already eager for next spring.

If I wanted an appliance for transportation purposes, I certainly wouldn't have the Benz, and the model does have its little quirks--but I actually enjoy them, and I couldn't buy anything half as much fun for what I've got in this!

suginami 11-05-2003 07:09 PM

Lynn,

I'm really curious as to what problems you've experienced in your 3 months of ownership.

Can you look at your repair bills and list what's gone wrong?

Rayson 11-05-2003 07:55 PM

Paul, I am with you on this one. I too would love to see Lynn post a list of all the problems. Lynn, sorry your experience with your SL has been so sour.

jcyuhn 11-05-2003 08:10 PM

Lynn -

First off, we're all sorry to hear about your problems. We all take it a bit personally when one of "our" cars doesn't treat someone right. That said, I suspect your problems are more a lack of competent service personnel than a car that truly needs that much work.

Second, I would encourage you to sell the car. A 20+ year old car - any 20 year old car - is only suitable for someone who is a DIY. If you're the type to Pay The Man, better off with something newer.

An FX45? Seriously? Those ride hard, really hard. Infiniti was serious when they put the sport in the suspension of those things. The first year depreciation alone will swamp the cost of owning the 380SL. That's the tradeoff with owning new cars; I personally don't find them worth the cost.

- JimY

suginami 11-05-2003 09:33 PM

Lynn,

Jcyuhn is largely correct in what he writes about the maintenance requirements of an older car.

You probably just got "unlucky" in the sense that the car you purchased needed a lot of care that the previous owner didn't give it. A 23 year old car is going to need replacement of parts that are at the end or past the end of their usefull service life. A PPI (pre-purchase inspection) might have revealed a lot of these problems before you bought the car, but it's too late to speculate now that you've bought the car and spent money repairing it.

Last, his comments on depreciation are right on the money. Depreciation is the most expensive component of car ownership. It is always overlooked by car owners because it happens to us passively. Everyone tends to over-emphasive the cost of repairs in maintenance within the total cost of car ownership. People usually sell a car when they feel they get "nickel and dimed" on repairs.

The fact is that maintenance and repairs are low on the list of car ownership expenses - less than the cost of depreciation, insurance, and fuel.

About the FX45 - believe it or not, you will incur more losses in depreciation in the first year of ownership than you spent in fixing up the 380 SL. The retail price on this car is about $45,000. This car will lose half it's value in the first three years. That is a loss of $22,50, or $7,500 / year.

See what I mean? You won't think twice of buying an FX45 and losing $7,500 per year for three years in a row, but are indignant in spending whatever amount you've spent fixing up the 380 SL.

I'm not trying to persuade you to keep the 380SL. It's probably a good idea to get rid of it considering what you expect out of a 23 year old car.

Instead, it's probably advisable to buy a 2-3 year old car, preferrably from a dealer's lot that has been put through their certification program. They usually come with some kind of warranty, even up to 100,000 miles. Mercedes calls their program "Starmark", and it is usually worth every penny.

CDNC36AMG 11-05-2003 11:05 PM

Couldn't agree more Paul.

I'm an accountant and couldn't have made those points any better.

Black129 11-05-2003 11:59 PM

Like everyone else I agree that an 20+ year old car will need maintainece but comparing it to a 20+ year old toyota or ford is like comparing apples with oranges. Mercedes has always been on the fore front of technology and with technology comes problems that are unavoidable. If you think of the technology in the mercedes compared to a ford is HUGE, believe me I had a 90 LX mustang with 350hp and I knew that car inside out. I now have a 97SL500 and I only do a few things to it(all filters and plugs). Unless you have the skills or guts to really dig into these(mercedes) cars, it is better to leave it to the pros. Any time you have an item that is on the cutting edge of the technology curve you will run into problems. That is the trade off for having such an advanced car.

RickM 11-06-2003 10:20 AM

Lynn is right about cars this age needing alot of work/care. The responses have been well thought out and logical.

What scares me is that this "one thing after another going wrong" phenomena is what's happening to brand new Mercedes all too often. I cringe to thing about a DIYer 20 years from now trying to keep their head above water.

lynn tassin 11-06-2003 11:05 AM

You use the term ADVANCED. I had to laugh. My whole point is I wouldnt mind spending even $70,000 on a car but you know what ... IT BETTER RUN. A car this price should be non stop quality. I mentioned the older american cars and stressed that at the same age, they are spending lots of enjoyable time on the road unlike me and my counterparts. It speaks volums that you guys even have to have a forum or "support group" to reign in all of the problems. Im gonna check online and see if there is an old ford or toyota support group lol. Those guys have $7000.00 cash in thier pockets, Ive just got the bills. Im not sure but I think they're having alot more fun than we are, and laughing all the way to the bank. Ill be in my "STIFF" infiniti which gets more stares and jaw dropping than I ever had in this old heap. I wonder what I was ever thinking.

lynn tassin 11-06-2003 11:36 AM

Ill list the problems, in hopes it will help some other sucker

Full tune up all plugs plug wires distributor rotor replaced

Car has low speed miss. MB mechanics determined no head gasket leaks. In fact car has no leaks at all. ALso when stopped like at stop sign etc, the car jumps. It literally moves up and down. Sometime it eventually kills. PLease read my other posts titled 380 sl jumping on idle.

They have now replaced the timing chain , tensioner, guides etc. car still jumps

Current repair bill is at $6400.00. That puts me at about OH $17,000.00 including the puchase price and its still jumping. I think the best thing to do is bring it in for appraisal. It should appraise high because it looks great and in great physical shape..(as long as they dont drive it). THEN I think the best thing to do would be for me to drive it down to the projects and leave it there with the keys in it. So you see at $6400.00 in repair in month 3, thats the same price as the FX45 depreciation and I have a flawless car that I can use to pick you guys up on the road when YOURS breaks down. I love this country lol

BobK 11-06-2003 01:28 PM

Let's see, we've had our '88 560SL (123k at purchase) since Christmas and in 10 months and 7k miles I've replaced:
-Oil and filter (twice)
-Sunvisor tabs
-front brake caliper (knew was bad when I bought car) & pads
-Spark plugs
-Air filter
-floor mats (old ones looked ratty)
-power antenna mast (backed under something)
-license plate light bulb
-windshield wiper blades
That's it! Truely sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with your car. I hope your next one gives you many years of ultra-reliable service. As to a 20 year old Ford, I suspect most 20 year old Fords are running fine...as two year old Chevys. By now they have been recycled at least once. I think if an accurate count was made of the percent of 1981 cars still on road, MB would be near the top.

lynn tassin 11-06-2003 01:31 PM

I think there are more ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAd, rather than on it.

Black129 11-06-2003 02:28 PM

Lynn... where are you finding a 20+ year old infinity at. Last I looked infiniti started building cars in 1990. And just to let you know, you wont be picking me up just looking at my tail lights when I scream past you. Have fun in you Sudo Utility Vehicle.

lynn tassin 11-06-2003 03:27 PM

Black try to read the post carefully before thinking of something clever to say. I think I hear your rear main seal about to go out. better go check it. FX 45 is a brand new Infinity. Ive now learned my lesson not to buy somebody's old junk

G-Benz 11-06-2003 03:51 PM

Sorry about the problems you've been having.

I will add that what drives most owners to sell their aging vehicles is the sheer frustration with the local indie's (or dealer tech's) inability to troubleshoot problems without throwing parts at it.

$6400 worth of parts and service and the original problem still persists? :confused:

I would venture a guess that if the right technician got a hold of your car early on and diagnosed the problem correctly, you would have faced far less intimidating costs, and a reliably-running MB as a result.

There have been times when one tech would recommend some expensive replacement of parts when another would say a vacuum hose or clogged injector was at fault. If you followed the advice of the first tech, you would bemoan the expensive maintenance costs of the vehicle. If you had the latter as your technician, you would praise the ease of serviceability and low maintenance cost of the same vehicle.

I guess you had the first tech doing the work. :(

Good luck with your new purchase... ;)

MineMapper 11-06-2003 03:55 PM

Sorry to hear about your misadventures Lynn, but I gotta say this.

Way to sell a car, hon! :D

lynn tassin 11-06-2003 03:55 PM

Thanks for the replys. Life is just much simpler and more fun when things work as they should.

lynn tassin 11-06-2003 03:56 PM

Dont worry, some fool'll buy it. I did

dmorrison 11-06-2003 04:15 PM

Lynn
Sorry to hear about your problems with the car.

Again it is a 23 year old piece of machinary. It will require work. so will that 23 year old Infinity in 2026, but I know your frustration and you are right to stick with new cars under warrentee. You see, you have no idea what your doing with a classic Mercedes. You have to have some mechanical knowledge to maintain these older cars, which obviously you don't have.

Old Fords just require routine mantainance?? My son's old Ford required a 2.5 year restoration to make it reliable.
A 81 Ford requiring only oil changes, yea right!!!

Replacing the timing chain was a good idea on the 81 380SL. But did the mechanic lead you to believe that the timing chain was causing your rough idle?? If so get a new mechanic.
The timing chain replacement could have been preventive work, not trying to solve a problem.

It sound like you need a new mechanic.
I had a rough idle in the 560SL The dealer worked on it twice. to the toon of $1100. It did not fix the problem. I raised hell and they finally replaced the distributor cap which fixed the problem. I requested and recieved a full $1100 refund for work done that was not necesary. I also changed mechanics.
Maybe you should bring this up with the shop doing the lousy work.

Sell the car. But not here, you have informed everyone here that it's a lemon and you want someone here to buy it. Not something you would expect a freind to do.

Dave

lynn tassin 11-06-2003 04:33 PM

But Sir, you see its not a lemon, its your normal old sl that just needs a little maintenence thats so often mentioned on this forum. People on this forum would think nothing of dropping a few thou here and there to maintain this dying breed. From what I hear its just another day at the races for this car. SO dont be afraid, step right up and buy it. Whether you buy my problem or anyone else's problem on this board, its all good. this is what the people here do. Fix Fix Fix Fix Fix. 80% of the post are "oh my god, how do I fix this."PLease Help".. I think ..Im not sure but I think Ide rather spend my time actually driving something. If you guys ever get your cars fixed, you'll no longer have time or need for this board. Spend time in a new car, instead of all day on this board looking for illusive answers. There is Life out there. Borrow someones car thats running and go get it guys

engatwork 11-06-2003 08:09 PM

That is a nice looking car lynn and I would like to pick something like that up (and I am fully capable of keeping it going myself) but I made up my mind awhile back that I would never again pay more than around $2500 for these old cars. If you drop the price to my range email me:) and let's dicker.

Jason Beal 11-06-2003 09:19 PM

I was under the impression (from reading on this board) that this model was expensive, even for a DIY, to maintain. 6500 clams for that work is outrageous though.

Michael K 11-06-2003 09:50 PM

Howdy Lynn,

How much to take it off your hands?

CDNC36AMG 11-06-2003 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by G-Benz


I would venture a guess that if the right technician got a hold of your car early on and diagnosed the problem correctly, you would have faced far less intimidating costs, and a reliably-running MB as a result.

Reminds me of my TVR 2500M. Had nothing but trouble until someone hooked me up with a great auto electric repair guy.

Had spent a couple of grand elsewhere with no results but a few hundred with this guy and suddenly I had an actually reliable TVR, almost unheard of to be honest.

When people ask repair advice here it's often to actually monitor what our techs are doing for the most part. These are complicated and beautiful cars....why let your tech re-invent the wheel.

Boudreaux 11-07-2003 03:25 AM

A 23 year old car will not run like a 2003. When you buy a used car, you are buying somebody else's problems whether they are known or hidden. MB's are not for everyone and their price justifies that fact. Why do you think Louis Vuitton charges so much for it's handbags made of PVC coated canvas and leather? For the snob appeal, of course.

I'm happy with my '94 SL500 despite it's problems, but hey, what do you expect from a used car?

Good luck selling it but not to anyone in this forum.

ChasB 11-07-2003 04:53 AM

Hell hath no fury .. etc.
I cant help feeling you've been royally screwed by your mechs. How they thought the timing chain was causing the uneven running I've no idea. As a previous post suggested a new set of mechanics would be in order.
My 31 year old Merc is my daily runner. It has cost me a fortune in detailing products! Upholstery cleaner, vinyl cleaner, car shampoo, chrome polish, the list seems endless. Oh, I did have to spring for a new air filter and servicing for oil changes.
Do I detect that if it wasn't for the lumpy running you'd be happy with the car?
I still get a rush when I come out of the house in the morning and se the majestic lines beckoning me. Perhaps it's a gender thing, men wanting a car as a mistress and women wanting it as a slave. A bit like relationships really!:D

lynn tassin 11-07-2003 10:13 AM

In answer to some of these questions, yes if it ran with no problems I may have been happy with it. I have never owned a used car before, and I bought the MB because of the "quality" I had heard so much about. Thats hardly what Ive gotten. I have gone online to Ebay and such as well as looked in the local paper for prices. Cars with physical damage and bad interiors etc are selling locally for for 7- 10 K. I have practiacally replaced most of the engine now so after all current repairs I will sell it starting at 11k. Again rich or aggravation friendly only need apply

lynn tassin 11-07-2003 10:21 AM

For those replying to try to take it off my hands. I will not be selling it for the $2500.00 Ive been offered. PLease you degrade the fabulous MB image by even suggesting such a price. No as Ive learned on this board, these cars are for the rich and famous and come at a hefty price because of their "advanved " lol technology and reliability. You will have to pay a pretty penny to buy this baby. but its like dog breeding, we have to keep the breed alive. With what you guys spend annually on repairs, you can just buy mine and double your headaches. No this car will sit quietly in front of my home to remind me daily how stupid I am. I apparently learn only from example so this will help me to be a better person. When you sift through a junk pile, guess what you get? JUNK.... Run to your local new car dealer and revel in new seats, the smell of new leather, and a car that starts everytime... oh and a warranty

RickM 11-07-2003 10:44 AM

Was the jumping idle problem solved? If so what was the problem?

lynn tassin 11-07-2003 10:45 AM

Final repair not yet completed

G-Benz 11-07-2003 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lynn tassin
I apparently learn only from example so this will help me to be a better person. When you sift through a junk pile, guess what you get? JUNK.... Run to your local new car dealer and revel in new seats, the smell of new leather, and a car that starts everytime... oh and a warranty
Ah Grasshopper, you have become wise beyond your years... ;)

Owning an old but legendary status symbol comes with a price. Most of us that have dived into maintaining something old knew beforehand that there would be some maintenance involved...some more than others, depending on the history of the vehicle.

In your case, owning a vintage MB and expecting some sense of long-term reliable pleasure for miles without picking up a wrench is not realistic. Granted, your mechanic assisted in shattering your hopes and accelerating your grief with the car.

If you wish to not have to get into learning about what makes a car tick, then you certainly are wise to stay with new car purchases and trade or dump them when the warranty runs out.

This is not limited to cars...there are many who think they get a bargain purchasing a very large charming, but old manor without realizing the severity of disrepair or the magnitude of skills required to keep it in form (remember the movie "Money Pit"?). :eek:

I didn't come into this as a skilled mechanic (although it would have helped tremendously). My wife doesn't understand the concept yet, but is patient with me as I spend evenings tinkering with this or that, or haul yet another large shipment from the front porch.

My 73 VW on my signature is my first car. Bought used in 1976 when I was 16. Over the course of ownership, when I got out of college, I decided to restore it in modified condition. It took 5 years and $15K to achieve this. It stayed nice for another 15 years.

Now I don't have time for it, and it took about 3 years for the car to deteriorate. I suspect it will take another $7K to get it back to its former glory...but it will get done someday (probably just in time for my daughter's 16th birthday). ;)

Only a car buff would sympathize with this scenario...the rest would mutter something about insanity... :rolleyes:

lynn tassin 11-07-2003 11:22 AM

for update on this marvelous vehicle please read 38o sl jumping on idle. truly truly amazing. Repair now up to $9500.00 and counting. This is really starting to get funny

lynn tassin 11-07-2003 04:41 PM

Ok guys I think Im off my high horse now. I apologize. Its getting so bad that now I can only laugh at all of this Ok the latest is he still insists this timing chain is causing the low speed miss and jumping. Keep in mind this is a certified MB mechanic at an MB dealership. He says now that one of the guides has fallen into the pan or engine or whatnot and he wants me to pay him $3000.00 to remove it, bringing the cost of replacing the timing chain to $5000.00. Can someone please make sense of this. I told him all of your suggestions about what was causing the car to jump and he sad"well I disagree"

maheath 11-07-2003 05:02 PM

The problem is you're getting hosed by your mechanic. When I had the timing chain and guides replaced (including the lower rails), it was in the $800 neighborhood, not $3000 or $5000. This was on a 560.

I would suggest you either complain to the service manager or have the car towed away from the dealership or both.


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