Retrofit Panorama roof to '99 SL600? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Eddie Gilmartin · #1 02-13-2004, 10:59 AM

I've just agreed to buy a '99 SL600. Does anyone know it will take a glass roof and what do they cost? Anyone know any light engine mods? Anything else people would like to share?

Eddie Gilmartin · #2 02-13-2004, 05:18 PM

Come on guys!. I've agreed to part with my '90 500 SL plus about US$40k for a '99 SL600 next Monday 16th. I am just looking for some reassurance. Been in the '90 for two and a half years (loved every minute) and just needed a change. Have test-driven half a dozen '92 to '98 911's since December and I'm back.

elau · #3 02-13-2004, 06:04 PM

First of all - lucky you!!

I don't know for sure you can just fit a new hardtop on your "new" SL. I think I read it here in the forum that there may be problem with the seal if the hard top is not the same one that came with the car. Now, I may be wrong!!

That aside, what kind of light engine mod are you thinking of? I don't think there is much you can do with the V12 besides upgrading the ECU. They practically shoe horn the V12 in the engine bay to begin with. There is just no room to add after market stuff sans sending the car to Brabus and have a major upgrade. Now if that's the route, I think the sky is the limit with that engine

Gilly · #4 02-13-2004, 07:12 PM

Yes the Panoramic top is available as an add-on item. The last I heard they run about $7500 for a new one, with the sides painted to match the rest of the car. The windows need to be adjusted to match the new top (and the top itself also adjusted). If the windows need a significant amount of adjusting, then the soft top will also need to be adjusted.

Leave the engine alone!!!

Gilly

jjrodger · #5 02-14-2004, 03:32 PM

The panoramic hardtop is not a direct exchange for the regular hardtop, apparently a few seals need changing. From the dealer it will cost you about GBP2000 on e-bay where it appears about once a month, a little less, maybe GBP1250. I'd love a 600, but the smart money says stick with the 5.

Gilly · #6 02-14-2004, 03:41 PM

Yes it is. The only caveat is that YES you will need to change some seals if you plan on putting a Panorama hardtop onto an older 129, I would say from 90 up to 93 or 94. You'd need to change to the later, updated seals on the CAR, I don't think you could change the Panorama roof into the older style, but the car seals can be changed (header and windshield pillar seals, and the seals on the soft-top.
If you have a newer 129 and want to get the Panorama hardtop, you're more than likely still going to have to at least adjust the new hardtop itself, then check the adjustment of the windows to the new hardtop, and after adjusting windows you'll probably have to do some adjustments to the soft-top frame.
I forgot about the seals being updated, and the Panorama top became available after the updates were done, so I'm sure the seals on the Panorama hardtop are all the latest style.

Gilly

Fast Eddie · #7 03-09-2004, 07:43 AM

I'm back under a new identity. Somehow my old account stopped working. Bought the car, have put 1000 miles on it so far, and love it. I know the smart money has always said buy the 500 before the 600 because of the heavier engine, lack of aural pleasure etc etc. But I'm converted. My 500 was delimited and fitted with a freeflow exhaust and K&N air filters. It made a lovely noise and was very quick. The 600 is MUCH quicker (particularly 50-100 and 80/120mph), but the silence is eerie. It could turn me into a hooligan, hitting the throttle hard to hear the engine occasionally.
Gilly, many thanks for the hard top advice. Think I'll leave well alone. I will probably just go for K&N's again out of habit.

LeaUK · #8 03-10-2004, 02:40 AM

Not coming from the world of modifying cars, why do people insist on changing the airflow characteristics by replacing the filter with a K&N?

MB would have spent thousands on air flow design and qualification, choosing the ideal filter material and testing etc, so why change it?

Do you really get a significant increase in air flow or is it all just myth? Also, if the K&N filter doesn't meet the filtering characteristics of the original part 'bye bye' Air Mass sensor - whoops there goes another £1000!!

Just my 2pc!

Lea

Gilly · #9 03-10-2004, 05:14 AM

I tend to agree, but you can't tell people that. I do have a K&N on my BMW cycle, but that's a different story, plus my bike doesn't have a mass airflow sensor, just an airflow plate, kind of like an M103 motor has.
The main problem that I know of with the K&N on a car with a MAF sensor, is that excess oil sprayed onto the K&N can be inducted into the MAF sensor and the oil can ruin the hot film media in the sensor.
But it seems like everyone has to "something" different to their car to make it so at least they "think" it's just a little better than stock. A little attractive advertising and make a few claims about what the product will do, and it's just like moths to a light, everyone comes running. Let me know if you want to know why I have one on my bike......

Gilly

Fast Eddie · #10 03-10-2004, 06:41 AM

I've had K&N's on a '97 E300Turbodiesel, a '91 500SEL, a '92 500SEL and a '90 500SL. None of them blew any parts/sensors. All repeatedly passed emmisions tests. All are still running on high miles. All made a nice noise and had improved throttle response (most noticeable in the drive-by-wire Turbodiesel). My 2 cents.
So Gilly, why on the bike ?

elau · #11 03-10-2004, 01:12 PM

The K&N may not have done any obvious damage to your MAF sensor or other parts, what it will damage is your engine. It allows dirt and other particles to get inside more easier than the OEM unit. You may have shortened your engine life without knowing it.

I agree with Learoy. MB spent millions of R&D dollars on the cars but people still want to modify the spec. I can understand the Brabus or Kleemann type of modifications because of extensive research go into it, but it is beyond my comprehension just to stick something into the car because of the advertised "better".

SLZ · #12 03-10-2004, 01:38 PM

How can K&N filters introduce more dirt? It is equal or better than most oem filters. That's why it became very popular through out the world and some racing circuits.

Gilly · #13 03-10-2004, 05:19 PM

Quote:

'97 E300Turbodiesel, a '91 500SEL, a '92 500SEL and a '90 500SL.

The only one of these that has a hot film MAF sensor is the Diesel. The others are all CIS-E injection with an airflow sensor (no mass air flow sensor at all). Even if you had a slightly later SFI system, with the LH (hotwire) MAF sensor, it would still be fine. It's the HF (hot film) management system where you can run into oil contamination problems from the K&N filter.

I believe the filtration with the K&N is fine, never heard anything bad about the quality of the job the K&N does. There may be some performance benefit to it (which is why it may be popular in some racing circuits, as previously mentioned), I believe this is probably (GASP!) a little over-rated though. The thing that's more attractive about the K&N air filter is that it can be cleaned, reoiled and reused. Fine, as long as you don't have a HF MAF sensor.

On the bike, this thing had a really huge flat air filter, sort of like what the newer MB's use (roughly 1/2 the size of a car air filter), which mounted similar to a Benz, in a split plastic box. Unflitered air entered on the bottom half, then the filter was between the 2 halves, so the filtered air went through the upper half of the box, through an airflow sensor (meter), and to the injector stack box. Problem with these K bikes is that the air filter box sat in between the engine and fuel tank, and behind the radiator. Mod kit came out which would support the airflow meter in it's proper location, and instead of the air filter box sitting there blocking the radiator air exit area, you just leave the mater there only, and the kit includes a flange to mount a small cylindrical K&N to the meter directly. Keeps the radiator happier and the fuel a little cooler also, with more room for air to blow between the tank and engine.

Gilly

LeaUK · #14 03-11-2004, 02:29 AM

In my opinion, for the meagre (if measurable) increase in power that can be obtained using the K&N I wouldn't want to risk damaging the MAF. MB have already issued a TSB regarding damaged MAF sensors due to sand ingress from leaking inlet manifolds - I wonder if they still honor their warrentee for the MAF if they find a non OEM filter?

Makes you think doesn't it!?!

Eddie Gilmartin · #15 09-15-2004, 02:46 PM

Ok. Ok. 5000 miles later and I never fitted the K&N's and never will. And the hardtop has been in the garage since the day i bought the car.
This engine is beautiful just the way it is. After a month or two I discovered what it's really capable of, and how to extract that aural pleasure I was looking for. Under normal driving you just never hear the engine, or at most a distant electrical type hum. But at 3500rpm....jet-fighter stuff.
What could I possibly buy after this? Start saving for a "65" I think.