WTB: older mercedes Diesel
 

I am wanting to purchase an older Mercedes diesel car just as a Daily Driver( something that wont stop working every 10 secs like my 560 sel and that i can get for about 800 running)

I dont know much about the diesels , but i know that they last a long time and get great MPG's .

What should i look for when trying to purchase one ?
Is it smart to buy one with over 250k on it ?
Can a amature mechanic work on this car ?

What are the common problems with these cars ?


Please let me know anything and everything i need to purchase my diesel !

Thanks

if the car is in good condition and runs well, mileage like that really wont hurt it too much.
Things to look for are tires in good condition, no rust! that's important. I would look at the fluids to make sure they look and smell normal, do a blow-by test, there's a couple ways to do that.. make sure all the lights work etc. I would personally take it to a mercedes specialist and have them give it a once over to know what your getting into. Some things you can do simply other things if your a novice it's best to take it in so that you dont damage anything important. Oh, Another thing is, if the Diesel has a pre filter, (small clear filter located on the injector pump side towards the bottom of the engine near the frame rail) check that the Diesel is the right color, it's usually green or has another tinge of color, I think it's blue. look at the filter itself, if it's black or just in general really dirty you will want to investigate why, Diesel can grow bacteria, and algae depending on what it's exposed to but a dirty filter could just be a dirty filter, so it pays to investigate further. the search function on the forum here can give you a wealth of knowledge, There's also a lot of great knowledgeable members here who can answer specific questions about motors, types of cars etc,

1) read this forum for at least 3 months religiously before buying anything.

many of us regret paying too much for the cars we have now.

Luke Use the search
 

WOW Where to begin? First, understand and accept the fact that for what you're budgeting, an expectation of finding a daily driver is already a tall order. If you have no intention of spending more, the main things to be concerned with would be rust and basic drivetrain health. Don't think rust needs an explanation. As for the drivetrain, focus on signs of engine wear and, more so, neglect. Check fluids and blowby, mentioned earlier, but also keep an eye peeled for bad hoses, clogged filters, and signs of any leakage, eg. oil, brake fluid, ps, hydraulic, vacuum, coolant, etc. It's simple to swap your fluids to make it appear that everything's on the up-and-up, but cleaning gunk out of the engine bay, hiding weeping, cracked and aged hoses and leaky fittings and masking vacuum/exhaust leaks so there are no traces of problems is pretty difficult. Make it so that you see the car when the engine is cold. A warm engine can disguise alot. Tranny is kinda hard, but if you know how to disconnect the vac line to the modulator, though the ensuing drive may be a little jolting, you can easily weed out a tranny rebuild or replace, no fun! No flaring = you're looking good. Only suggesting this as troubleshooting the vacuum system could take a few seconds or a few weeks. In the rear, check you're axles for torn boots. It won't be driving daily for long with dirty joints. Whew, that was a little windy. Did I mention rust? Man, bodywork is a serious pain. Depending on your locale this might not be such an easy feat. As the other posters said, read, ask, and read again. There is a googols worth of sites with info on these cars, perfect for the DIY minded. The search function is your friend. Here's a freebee: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/263367-how-much-%24-would-you-spend-daily-driver.html <--- Mucho info

Rhetorical? Mileage, to a large extent, is irrelevant with some models.

For an eight bennie chariot, you can expect to log plenty of hours wrenching. Keep a maintainence journal. Very handy.

See first answer.

The search is strong with this one. Good luck on your journey.


x2 on the search function and knowledgeable ilk in these parts.

A "specialist" might have a good chuckle if presented with something in this price range, but, may just as well charge you double + if business is slow.

Agree with the researching, way too simple to work on most things with these autos. Did you really pay that much more? Dang, woulda been happy if I'd paid twice as much.


FNHB

For your budget, unless you're lucky, you're gonna be looking at high-mileage, not-all-that-well looked-after, probably cosmetically tatty examples. Obviously, the only thing really different with a diesel is the engine- I bought a diesel for longevity, economy and simplicity of the engine- the rest of my 124 is just the same as the 300E I had except it hasn't got a zillion problematic bits on the engine to contend with. They are also pretty basic to drive compared to modern cars, so don't expect performance anything like your 560, 'relaxed' would be my description...

The older diesel engines are so simple, a competent amateur can do the basic tasks like oil & filter/fuel filter changes easily. Well maintained, they do go on for ever, but the rest of the car will fall apart eventually just the same as the gas models :)

The usual caveats apply: like the others said do your research and find the model(s) you want, and the problems to look out for with that chassis/engine, go for the best example you can afford, don't buy the first car you see (unless it's amazing!), a high-mileage well-maintained car is better than low miles with no history and never driven- repair costs can mount up for these cars shockingly quick if they've not been looked-after... good luck :)

Check your private messages.

did you say you have a 560sel that cuts off? are you keeping up with the maintenance on the car? it could be as simple as a clogged fuel filter or fouled spark plugs.

even with the same make...diesel and gassers can 'feel' very different.

diesel are indeed simpler but still require maintenance.

if you aren't the DIY type, you are setting yourself up for a letdown.

Check my signature and the Cars Forum --- I've got 2 diesels for sale now.

thanks for the Tips everyone
i found one in miami for $600 and i am going to take a look at it today .

in the pics he sent me everything looks good, but we all know how that goes !

and i'm taking my friend with me who also knows a lot about these cars ..

and my 560 no longer stops everyday, that was when i first bought about 4 years back and before i fixed all the problems.

and yes i'm a big DIY'er, i'm a student and i have lots of free time on my hands

and yes i paid WAY TO MUCH FOR IT. ( The 88 560sel )
paid 3k+ shipping and spent about 4k fixing it.


Now it runs like a champ and i have not had a problem since.

I've got a good SDL for sale

you can deffinetly get a nice one for under 800$ but expect to put money into it to get it as nice as you would like it.. ive owned 23 mercedes in the past 3 years (only have 6 at moment) and ive never paid more than 800$ and out of the bunch i only had to tow 2 from when i bought them..usually put about 600$ or less into each one to get it running perfect and drive it for awhile then sell it...im guessing i have an addictive personality :smoking: unfortuanly i like the six i have at the moment to much to sell...

Here is S. FL the Haitians were all over cheap diesel W123s for sale, pre-earthquake. A friend had two Haitians bidding on his rust bucket the day he listed it. Both planned to ship it back to Haiti, one the whole car, the other just engine and trans. They know the cars too, I was there and one of them pointed to the servo in my old wagon and grimaced.

My point? Historically cheap ones get snagged really quick, that might have changed after the earthquake.

true with the earthquake, i have a w124 wagon i was selling.. hatian was going to come back the next day to pay, earthquake happened and he hasnt been back since...and hes my mail man!!!...all the hatians in my neightborhood are jealous of my diesels :D

Yes, and definitely shop around. I was in a hurry and overpaid and she's got holes in the floor. Nothing that hundreds of hours of welding won't fix, though. I think I want to get another, nice one sometime and treat it really well. Mines is a bit of a beater.

Red 81 240 D 4 speed standard. looks good runs good pasenger seat fell through floor floor is so rotten. 800 it's yours

keep it coming !

Just bought a 240D...here is my take...
 

I had exactly the same thing in mind, I read this forum and drove many cars, and after about a year, bought my first MB diesel last week. It didn't need to be a year of course, but I did go through some gyrations.

I wanted an all manual beater 240D that I could love and bring up bit by bit to a nicer car. This is not all that easy. There is so much junk out there that all cheap beaters require a lot of work. If you enjoy that, and can DIY not just the diesel, but electrical, suspension, body work, and take pride in incremental improvement, then I figured that would be cool. It is not necessarily cheap.

I drove so many old cars with crappy steering and suspension, that I began to wonder if I had the time to create a reliable car from an unreliable one. As time grew, I found myself more and more interested in something I could maintain, or upgrade in a minor way, and I became willing to pay more. Nicer cars are harder to find, and when you have seen enough of them, they pop right out at you.

I bought a lovely survivor with 180K miles. The owner of 26 years would only sell it to me when he saw how I cared for my cars. Every scrap of maintenance was done at all intervals. The body is as if new. I paid $5000 which I view as $1000 too much and he viewed as $1000 too little. But the car is close to spec, and at that point, where was I going to find another 240D manual like that.

Even with that, I had to put in a new batt and some tires. At 180K it is due for the next round of maintenance. I am fashioning my valve adjustment wrenches this afternoon! But I have a lovely car with a hobby, that is not an obligation. Other peeps are going to take pride in paying nothing for what might become a similar car. I respect that and have some admiration for that, but it turned out that is not really what I am.

All this is to say that my thoughts on this have evolved, and if you don't know a lot about them, I would do as someone described above. Read this forum, drive some cars, and be honest about what you want. I had ambitions as a restorer, but I would rather tinker and drive.

It is an awesome car btw, did I mention that?

I'm a relative noob here too. I looked at cars and asked questions here for months before buying. I can DIY some things (just replaced shocks) but in general am not a mechanic. Condition was supremely important for me. I finally found a Euro 240D, 1984 in Phoenix with zero rust, a great body and 202k miles. It's a 4spd, crank windows, manual AC. Everything works very well. EVERY car I looked at but this one had rust, and I'm in Arizona, where "cars don't rust". Keep in mind that "a little rust" is a huge trap. Unless you're willing to pull back carpeting and the trunk liner and crawl around underneath, when you look at a "little rust" you can assume you're looking at the tip of an iceberg. Another thing you'll hear from sellers is that "they all leak a little". Mine doesn't. The engine is spotless and has stayed that way in the 2 months we've had it. My son drives it almost 40 miles a day to school and back. He's getting about 28 mpg, 30 on a good day. Don't be suckered by the 40mpg BS. We paid 2300, and there are some things I'm going to have my indy do; motor mounts, rear axles etc. so I expect to put another grand into the car over the next few months.
Read read read and ask a million questions here. I felt a little guilty at first with my constant brain picking here when I was still looking, but this group is eager to share and my impression is that there are NO dumb questions.
As an essentially non-DIY'er, if I'd bought any of the 800 dollar cars I'd looked at they'd more than likely remain beaters, as putting thousands into one would be out of the question. Don't be in a hurry, there are still good ones out there.

elchivito, sounds like you got a deal, or I did not...
 

...but one thing I want to emphasize in that post is the rust check. My car too has virtually zero rust, two surface spots. I pulled the carpets on every car I looked at, and the wheel wells in the trunk, and in behind the battery, and the jack stands, and only two cars passed the tests, one was the first car I drove and one was the last (because I bought it).

i could not believe how often a car looked great on CL and it was an absolute rust bucket in the floors, etc., and I live in a low-salt state.

dieselbenz...funnest disease I ever had!
 

"EVERY car you looked at" is surprising at first, c'mon we're talking the arid and puckered southwest here, then you snap back to the minor sub-$800 detail, explaining it all. Ahaah. These subjects you looked at don't exactly fall into the well-cared-for category. This point cannot be flogged enough in the company of those new to these mercedes diesels and looking for a bonafide carpet ride. Coupled with the "what are you in it for?" make sure you nail your expectations AND understand your capabilities. Full-blown fearless DIYer ready to tackle it all or knuckle-less glove wearing, road-trippin' afficianado expecting the legend-like reliability with no regard on investment. Willing to bet you could have saved gobs of your time answering this first. Then again we are men and these are cars, it never ends...

Second the sentiment regarding this forum and its veritable rosetta stone status. I too have spent countless hours sifting and absorbing, rinsing and repeating. Yeah, there are "good ones" still out there, you play the lotto don't you? You heard of do-do birds right? Won't be long here either. The old time vs. money predicament. You best be ready to invest heavily with one or the other. It's been said a million times before but still bears repeating: "There is no such thing as a cheap Mercedes Benz." Less pain and more fulfillment for those who fully understand this. Carry on.

Sulawesi - "low-salt state" <---Funny. Most of us this side of the Mississippi are completely unaware of this auto-enemy #1, didn't realize there was a grading scale. Or is this just a phrase you coined?


FNHB

more more more !

i'm going to look at a 300sd wagon today ..
i will let you guys know how it goes

thanks everyone for you info:)

if that car exists for sale buy it... no price too high..

I'd hold out for the SDL wagon, want club seating.

Besides the rust, two other things to check are how easily the diesel starts from stone-cold, and how low the oil-pressure reads on a fully warmed-up engine while idling.
For a cheap car that isn't going to be a show-car, you may be willing to accept some rust if the car is otherwise mechanically sound.
In any case, try to get the diesel you want up on a lift for a better look.

Be prepared to do some periodic wrenching on a cheap daily-driver, or else pay alot for professional repairs.

For example, last Spring I paid $1300 for a solid-body stickshift '82 240D, that needed tires, alternator and a windsheild. Car ran & drove superbly, but the additional deferred maintenance (halfshafts, flexjoints & center bearing, AC repairs, other misc. small items) brought the price of the car to $3000. Except for the tires and windsheild, I provided all of the labor. If I wasn't able to do much of the work myself, I'm sure a shop would have easily added a couple grand in labor to the total.

Happy Motorng, Mark

For any near vintage car, paperwork is a bonus, not a requirement. Many of these cars have been owned by many people. Just because it doesn't have paper work, doesn't mean that it wasn't repaired properly or regularly maintained. Some people simply aren't organized. Ask questions.

I'd be weary of buying a car from someone who has a few of these in their driveway. Often people don't sell their gems, they sell their junk. Some exceptions to the rule exist, including a 240D that was recently sold by a forum member. The car had approximately 30k miles on it and looked superb. Much like a new car should.

Look for rust. Even if its in Miami, it could be a Northern transplant. Both of my recent acquisitions are very clearly southern cars that have histories that keep them both in the south since new.

If there is a bit of rust peeking out from a seam of the Undercoating, chances are that your floor may soon need to be replaced. I walk away from these cars.

OP: NEVER buy a cheap mercedes diesel; you'll be better off spending 3,000 for a nice car than spending 800 on one. The $800 car will drive you nuts (I am the idiot who bought the $800 car).

i bought my 66 200d for 800$ put a few thousand miles on it and only spent money on filters at the very beginning :P all my other cars were cheaper

No too many hatians here-But here in suburban DFW texas it's always middle easterners and Indians/asians who are admiring my w123 diesels!

I got a clean 81 300cd coupe for sale-non turbo.

That's not a hard and fast rule. Everyone has a different value on something. Sometimes you don't have to look too hard or too far to find a solid car that needs a bit of, but not too much TLC to bring back to life.

Both of my cars were not terribly expensive, but need work to be reliable for daily use. The SD needed a transmission, not a hard job, but perhaps too much for some DIY folks. The 220 just suffered 20 years of storage neglect.

I've seen enough $3000 cars that should be $500 cars, but fewer $500 cars that can be elevated to $3000 cars.

Second this. Also, a second on the paperwork. I've got records on Lana up 'til '96 and since then, have performed all the work myself. (Read: He is not a very organized individual.)

One of the loudest recurring themes, though, is the rust issue. Just because a car is now living in socal doesn't mean it was always there. Seen many transplants lately myself. It kills me, what some people try to get away with pawning off to others at a profit. Just wrong. I'd say if you can find a good rust free runner that starts fine when cold and has decent pressure when at operating temp (as mentioned before,) take the remaining good stuff as small wins. If you're holding out for that diamond in the rough, not saying it isn't comin' your way, just may take a long while. Half the fun, I've discovered, is learning and wrenching on her myself. Hehe. Why spend all your time on the sidelines?


FNHB

Perhaps one could elevate a $500 car to a $1000 car.
Never having prevously owned a diesel, I've enjoyed my first two cheap, rusty 240Ds. As drivers they've been reliable since I took care of some mechanical issues, and some major repairs to the floors & seat supports.
And once my first stickshift diesel was roadworthy, I really enjoyed taking it on my Outer Banks trip with the Mercedes group two years ago.
But with my purchase of a third, very solid 240D, it's time to move on. I Already sold the first stickshift 240D to a neighbor, who plans to 'restore' it. I still have the rusty automatic car. It looks nice and it's the perfect choice for local errands, but I should try to recoup some of what I spent on the latest 240D.
But I was happy to get the last one for $1300 and spend the same for fixup since the body/interior was so solid.
I'm sure a perfect 240D, needing nothing, would have cost $5 to $7 K, but where's the fun in that?

Happy Motoring, Mark