Buyer beware! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

400Eric · #1 09-02-2010, 08:12 AM

Buyer beware!

Member "Captruff1" (Jeff) sold me a "running" 92 4.2 M119 that arrived with ALL of it's oil tubes missing. How well do M119s run with all of their oil tubes missing? He at first seemed like he was going to make things right but for quite some time now he hasn't even returned any of my phone calls or PMs. Meanwhile he still found the time to attempt to sell the air cleaner assemblies to this engine and another junk 94 4.2 that I bought from him too as part of this same deal. Air cleaners that I think the rest of you would have had the decency to include as part of the deal for the engines. This "running" 92 engine and junk 94 were actually part of a package deal that also included a trans and an EZL too but these items were secondary to the main thing I was after which was those dag gum metal tubes. The vast majority of the purchase price for this stuff was for that "running" 92 4.2.

I don't think we should have to describe every single part of a car or engine we are buying from fellow board members. "OK, does this 500E still have a 5.0 in it? Has anybody ever swapped a 4.2 in it's place?" "I better check the numbers to be sure." "Does it still have 2.82 gears in it?" "Has anybody swapped in 2.24s?" You see where I'm going with this. Maybe such precautions are necessary when buying stuff off of Craigslist but we shouldn't have to be so anal when dealing with fellow board members. It's a given that a "running" 92 M119 comes complete with it's valve covers intact as well as all the stuff that is supposed to be inside. Jeff told me this engine was ready to drop in a car and run as is and the bottom line is it is not.

Jeff has since told me his partner is the one who actually removed the oil tubes from said engine. Perhaps that person should be the one making the effort to make this right? Either way, I shouldn't be the one who gets shorted because of who Jeff lets in his shop.

This thread is my only recourse for getting things made right. Please help me guys. I bought that 92 engine specifically for it's metal oil tubes as the 95 in my sig needs them. That project is dead in the water right now because of it's rotten plastic tubes. Jeff needs to make this right. Can you guys please help persuade him? Again, I don't seem to have any other recourse and he seems to know this which is apparently why he's not even bothering to return my calls, much less make the effort to make this right.

I wish that we could have worked this out privately without airing the laundry publicly. But how can you do that when the other party won't return phone calls or PMs? I absolutely hate doing this thread but I see no alternative when the other party refuses to even return a call or PM. I've been waiting too long!

I spoke at length through E-mails with a fellow board member who is very respected here about this problem trying to find another way to solve it but we were unable to come up with an alternative that would work because they all would require Jeff returning a call or PM which doesn't seem to be something Jeff wants to do right now.

I also am very aware of the other aftermarket options for metal tubes but I was and am trying to find a less expensive route. I do have financial limitations. That's why I did this deal because I was getting other parts with my tubes for barely more money than what the aftermarket tubes cost alone. I don't feel I should have to pay $384 for aftermarket metal tubes when I've already paid good money for an engine that already has them! How is that fair to me? Not to mention that I can't afford to go that route, especially now! $400 is a lot of money to me!

Ideally, I'm hoping that someday here has a stock set that they can sell for cheap to Jeff's partner so he can replace the ones he took from this engine.

Again, let me be clear: I was told that this was a complete, running, ready to drop in engine. It is not. It's pretty cut and dry.

This is not a "running" engine if all of it's oil tubes are missing! It's a bald faced lie and needs to be corrected! While I do believe that Jeff didn't know at first that his partner had removed the tubes and he didn't intentionally rip me off, the fact is that he has ripped me off because I did not receive what he promised me and I did not receive what I paid for which was/is a running 92 4.2 M119 engine. This oil tube removal happened while the engine was still his in his shop and yet he expects me to absorb this when it is clearly not my fault. He admits he now knows his partner took them and even promised to make it right which proves he knows deep down inside that this needs to be made right but now that he has found out that he's gonna have to spend more than five minutes on this to solve it he just wants to blow it off instead as not worth his time. His customers are only important to a point I guess. The moment he found out that those tubes were missing he should not have rested until the problem was solved. He should have rode his partner's butt to fix this since the partner is the one who caused the problem in the first place. Would any of the rest of us here done any less if we were in Jeff's shoes? Yet he seems content to go on to the next deal and has in fact run several more ads in the meantime looking to sell more stuff without taking care of those who have already given him their hard earned cash. The bottom line here is that I didn't get what I paid for and I won't rest until I do. In the meantime I am gonna work to inform everybody else in the hobby on this site and others how this vender has treated me.

This thread is not only a cry for help but also to inform and warn others: Buyer Beware of this vender!
Regards, Eric

meltedpanda · #2 09-03-2010, 09:34 AM

this is a tough one, we do a lot of things when it comes to buying and selling on this forum based on trust, when that is breached, not a lot can be done. The seller either makes it right or does not.
Wish you had other options, but you do not. He cna be banned from this forum and given a black mark, but that does little to help you
Best of luck. If I had a set of tubes, I'd send em to you

Hogweed · #3 09-03-2010, 10:42 AM

first, let me say that feeling like you're getting ripped off sucks, and i am in no way discounting that reality. please remember that as you read on.

it seems that there are several important aspects of the story that are missing, even though it is basically a 1200 word essay

. i think the main point of the story comes across pretty readily and much of the rest is superfluous.
one thing that would be of interest would be the time frame: when did you first buy the motor (or motors???-that part isn't as clear either)? what was your initial response? how many attempts have been made, what was the tone and/or disposition, and over what time period did they occur?
i ask because as a seller, i find that the definition of "patient" differs greatly depending upon who is using the word. again, not saying you have not been, its just that "the reader" doesn't know.

i have found that the vast majority of issues b/t buyer and seller can be fixed, but often necessitates patience and communication (talking AND listening

) between the parties.
again this is not to say that you're in any way responsible for creating the engine arriving w/ no oil tubes, but it may be possible that your response has created an environment where very little two-way communication can take place........just some thoughts

400Eric · #4 09-04-2010, 01:25 AM

I did not start this thread lightly without serious consideration.

The purchase was made in late May or early June. I discovered the missing tubes within about 3 minutes and realized at the same time that his worker who dropped the stuff forgot to leave me the EZL which was also part of the deal. I called him and he came back to drop the EZL. While he was here I pointed out the missing tubes. The "essay" above is an "essay" for a reason. In it I address and answer about 2/3rds of your questions including what happened next: Jeff originally was apologetic and indicated that he would find, procure, and deliver the missing metal tubes. He also told me that his "partner" admitted to taking the tubes and didn't tell him (Jeff). I guess the guy was entitled to do that at that time because of his status as "partner" but by not telling Jeff, Jeff wound up selling a "running" engine that wasn't. Now while Jeff can't be blamed or faulted entirely for what happened up to this point, he most certainly is at fault for what has transpired since. After waiting about 10 days and hearing nothing, I called Jeff to get an update. The story was still the same at that point, he even asked me how the tubes are removed, I told him I would send him a PM with a link to Jim F's article on his site and did so within 24 hours. That was the last time we talked. I called a few days later to make sure he got the PM and link, and I've been calling about once every ten days ever since, remaining courteous all the while, all the time, every time, and leaving a voice mail every time. Only the last time I called did I ramp it up a bit and tell him that he needs to return my call immediately. After waiting entirely way too long for even the simple decency of a returned call I got fed up and wrote the "essay". There has been no communication because there has been no returned calls and that is the part that is the most irritating to me even more so than being ripped off. I, like you, am all about and am very into communication.

Yes, it was 2 engines, I mentioned it twice in the first post. The second engine is pure junk and that was/is understood between Jeff and I. The second engine has the God awful plastic tubes and has way more miles on it than the engine in my 95 that I want to swap the plastic tubes out of. They are a known problem area so no, using the tubes from the other engine is not an option especially when you consider that they are older, brittler, and have more miles on them than the ones that are already failing in my 95. Here is the link to Jim F's page that shows the problem with the plastic tubes: http://www.k6jrf.com/MB_lifter.html
Oh and BTW, SHAME on Mercedes for engaging in this kind of cost cutting on cars that originally cost from $58,000 to $98,000! That's 1994 dollars BTW! If They had done the right thing and stayed with the metal tubes that were clearly already working just great we wouldn't be having this conversation! How greedy do you have to be to pinch pennies that hard on cars that you are getting such obscene amounts of money for? We expect, (and usually get), this kind of penny pinching from GM but Mercedes too? I swear it makes me want to switch brands! But I digress....

Sorry if my tone isn't as pleasant as it should be it's just that this has been brewing for three months not to mention the fact that my 95 project remains dead in the water because of this.
Regards, Eric

400Eric · #5 09-11-2010, 08:27 AM

Bump!
Need to get this message to as many unsuspecting potential victims as possible.
Regards, Eric

cth350 · #6 09-12-2010, 09:06 AM

Being a nice quiet Sunday morning before that first cuppa coffee, I was curious about the "bold" vs "bald" (or "bare") issue. A quick google turned up wikipedia's "lie" page (can one trust the material on a page about lying?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

Seems both usages are correct. The other common sites that like to answer questions have similar things to say.

HTH -CTH

meltedpanda · #7 09-12-2010, 08:33 PM

well seeing how we got off track, I have always used "bald face" perhaps its a north south thing..

Hogweed · #8 09-12-2010, 10:42 PM

hey, eric wants it at the top and this will keep it there as well as anyhting else!

my maternal grandfather was from merry old england and we always used "bald-faced" and that seems the traditional, lying-englishman usage

Quote:

Originally Posted by meltedpanda

well seeing how we got off track, I have always used "bald face" perhaps its a north south thing..

400Eric · #9 09-13-2010, 05:49 AM

Hey, whatever works is cool with me so long as we aren't making light of my situation.
Regards, Eric

meltedpanda · #10 09-13-2010, 11:09 AM

No Eric , yours is a serious situation , and this will keep it active, and Hogweed we used it up in northern PA this way...

Jetmugg · #11 09-14-2010, 10:27 AM

What are oil tubes?

SteveM

Hogweed · #12 09-14-2010, 12:16 PM

http://www.k6jrf.com/MB_lifter.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetmugg

What are oil tubes?

SteveM

400Eric · #13 09-28-2010, 07:14 AM

Bump!
Need to get this message to as many unsuspecting potential victims as possible.
Regards, Eric

Jim's500E · #14 09-29-2010, 03:24 PM

Did you buy these engines site un-seen?

Buyer beware indeed.

I've never had a problem with anything I've bought from Jeff, not that I'm defending him in anyway with respect to your problem.

Have you considered telling all this to a judge in court? We really can't help you other than the lip service...its between you and Jeff.

400Eric · #15 09-30-2010, 03:27 AM

Yes, I did buy site un-seen. People do it all the time and things usually work out fine. That's the way it is supposed to be BTW. People are supposed to be able to trust each other or is that just a naive, outdated notion? Am I supposed to eat this just because I trusted the guy?

Can't even sue the guy because I don't even have an address or even a last name on him. Could somebody here please help me with those?

My main intent with this thread though wasn't to seek help. It was/is to warn and inform others so they don't suffer the same fate I did. That's why it's called "Buyer Beware".

I have received several PMs of support BTW.

Jeff could still fix this by simply replacing the missing oil tubes with another set that are correct for that year engine. For someone with his connections in this hobby, it wouldn't be that hard for him to do if only he were willing to put more than a bare minimum of effort into it.
Regards, Eric

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode