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  #1  
Old 06-25-2005, 12:18 AM
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Best Rust-Free Dust-Free Brake Rotor/Pad Combination

My brake pads are low, my rotors are low... so I'm going to replace both at once.

My wheels have big holes in them so rusty rotors and brake dust are very visible. Currently I have OEM rotors and pads. I removed all the rust from the rotors and painted the center with high-temp ceramic paint when I installed my new wheels as shown in this before/after shot. I could paint new rotors as well, but the paint hasn't proven as durable as I'd hoped.

So I'm looking for a good combination of rust-free rotor and relatively dust-free pad.

I'm willing to pay extra for the parts, but would like to retain normal longevity (no rotor-eatin' pads).

For pads I'm leaning towards the PBR / Axxiss "Deluxe" pads which apparently have relatively low dust while retaining most of the OEM feel and rotor longevity.

For rotors I've found a variety of that fit on my 1992 300E...

Zimmerman Cross Drilled, $180 front pair, $120 rear pair, on Fastlane. Somewhere else I saw these claimed as being plated, but I could not find any confirmation.

Drilled/slotted, gold color, I'm assuming plated, at Performance4Benz, $225 front pair, $144 rear pair

Drilled, gold cadmium plated, at Berg Werks, "under $400" per axle complete kit.

Powerslot cadmium plated, $186 front pair, $156 rear pair, at Tire Rack. "Brightly-plated Power Slot rotors also eliminate rusty rotor syndrome and enhance the look of custom wheels." Or the same thing cryogenically treated for $250 front and $220 rear, also at Tire Rack, supposedly "Rotors last 2-3 times longer." which would be well worth the additional cost if true.

Brembo drilled and painted, on ebay and cheap (about $100 for a front pair). But from the feedback I've read, quality of the paint job seems to be in question. It may be that these are painted and/or drilled after-the-fact by the sellers. Here's some by seller 935, and more by seller nightsauto, who also apparently offers cadmium plating.

SP Performance, apparently they take OEM rotors and slot/drill them, and nickel plating is available. Their virtues are extolled atRaceShopper.com, and sample prices of $168 front pair and $117 rear pair for drilled are at National Fleet Parts.

For all the rotors, I'm a little skeptical about the paint or plating holding up to the rigors of the road, I'd be very interested to hear of anyone's experience with them.

I had hoped to find stainless steel as is common for motorcycles, but apparently they don't exist for cars. I'm assuiming it's some sort of performance issue.

ALL the rust-resistant rotors that I've found for my car have been slotted and/or drilled. I have heard conflicting things about the benefits and/or pad-eating behavior of slotted vs drilled. If it's a toss-up I'd prefer drilled 'cause I think they'd look cool with my wheels. I also prefer the silver color plating to the gold plating if there's no difference in protection.

So... if I were to choose right now, I guess I'd go with SP Performance drilled and the PBR Deluxe pads.

Any input on that combination, or other choices, eagerly accepted... thanks!

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  #2  
Old 06-25-2005, 12:59 AM
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Why dontcha buy them wheel dealies that fit between the wheel and hub...
Have 'em painted or chromed ....

Then yer could put on real cheep brakes, like ya know yer want to.



.
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  #3  
Old 06-25-2005, 01:14 AM
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Dust? What Dust?

CERAMIC Pads
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  #4  
Old 06-25-2005, 03:42 PM
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What the bmw guys do, and it works.

What the BMW guys do, is PAINT the rotor hat with high temp silver, before they install the rotor on the car, then throw them in the oven to bake it on.

90% of the rotor rust is on the hat (the portion that goes from the actual braking surface over the hub). This is just exposed metal and will surface rust very quickly. The braking surface will not rust, as friction essentialy perpetually polishes it. You can also mask and paint the outer edge, but i'd worry about paint contamination of the pad as the rotor wears there.

If done properly it works VERY well. You can also do other colors if that is your thing. Just use VHT high temp engine enamel. Mask carefully, spray and allow to dry. There is a natural edge where the braking surface ends and the hub cover begins that you can run a razor blade along to mask properly. Remove masking, high temp paint needs to be cured before it is heat resistant. Read the can for complete instructions, but it can easily be accomplished in your oven, using an old cookie sheet.

On the street, there is NO need for drilled/slotted or other exotic rotors. They wear pads faster, and are more prone to cracking. Just use brembo or zimmerman blank rotors.

Pad is your choice, I use Raybestos quiet stop metal master ones, (The noise solution ones), and the dust is minimal.

Under NO circumstances put those stupid disc clean wheel things on it. The brakes need the airflow to cool, you can warp rotors, or worse with those things.

Also, put a good thick coat of paste wax on your wheels, once you clean them up as best as possible. The cheap stuff is actually better here, turtle wax or its equivalent. Any dust that does build up comes off with a hose, or a wet paper towel. Just keep a good coat of wax on them, and they will clean up almost instantly, and look great.

Clean the rotor with brakekeen or equivalent before painting, and before installation.

Best of luck to you,

George
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  #5  
Old 06-25-2005, 11:37 PM
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SP Performance drilled and the PBR Deluxe pads is what I am going to do. I already have experience with PBR Deluxe and they are as advertised, descent stuff, little to no dust. I am currently using PowerSlots and although they are noisy they lasted pretty well. I am probably at the 1/100 of a mm layer before the slots wear out completely.
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  #6  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:16 AM
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I have those stupid disc clean wheel things on my wifes 94 E320 and they work great and have never warped a rotor or caused any problems in the last 116000 miles.

Dan
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  #7  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANSMB
I have those stupid disc clean wheel things on my wifes 94 E320 and they work great and have never warped a rotor or caused any problems in the last 116000 miles.

Dan
I've said this many times on this forum and I will say it again because I don't want ANYONE to experience the brake failure I had on a hot day when my 400E had DUST SHIELDS installed to keep the wheels clean.

My brakes overheated after some fairly intense stop and go driving and just faded to NOTHING until the car cooled off.

Unless you live in an extremely mild climate, I recommend that you rip them off and fling them like frisbees as far as you can...

Oh, and I agree that the ATE PowerSlots are noisy and I don't plan to use them again.

PBR Deluxe seems to be the most respected "clean" pad. (Not PBR Metal Masters) and I've heard many good things about ceramic pads, so I expect to try them soon...
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  #8  
Old 06-28-2005, 06:04 PM
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I recommend Ceramic pads over PBR deluxe. very litte dust (there is always going to be SOME dust, you won't ever get rid of it entirely!)

BTW PBR ceramics are back ordered 3 months for ceramic pads the last time I asked. I just tried a set of new PBR Delux-Plus "Organic" pads, and they smelled like burning bakelite when I was doing a break-in. I don't know what kind of material they came up with but I hate stinky pads. Back to regular PBR deluxe pads, not the -PLUS variety!
Akebono makes super ceramic pads, I am using them on my W124, no fading, no squeal, very little dust, everything I could want in brakes.
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?make=Akebono&model=ProACT+Ceramic+Pads
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  #9  
Old 07-05-2005, 03:12 PM
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MB rotors were soft to reduce chance of cracking. To match that rotor,
MB chose pads to match such rotors, and it happened that the pads produced much brake dust. D-Chrysler did not recommend ceramic pads.

I read this at a web page that contains talks by big 3's at conference. I copied and pasted the content mercedesshop forum, but I forgot which post it was.
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  #10  
Old 07-05-2005, 08:03 PM
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D-Chrysler did not recommend ceramic pads.

I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that warning as for cars driven on the highways. If for a race car maybe its a valid concern but I haven't seen any evidence that rotors are cracking because of ceramic pads. They are selling lots of them to drivers of other types of cars too.
If Chrysler were interested in preventing damage to more safety minded parts like engines, perhaps they would take more interest in replacing defective crankshaft dampners on OOW (out of warranty) cars, like the recall in effect. Or campaign as they call them. Lots of "modern Benzs" have worse design problems than brake rotors. Then there is the strut tower braces coming off. tsk tsk.
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  #11  
Old 07-05-2005, 08:32 PM
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Thanks for all the replies...

Regarding painting, I did do that as shown in this before/after shot. I used Dupli-Color High-Heat w/Ceramic which is good to 1200 degrees, a step up from their normal engine enamel paint as far as temperature.

I baked it in the oven per the instructions on the can. The paint rubbed off immediately where the wheel contacted the rotor, but I expected that and it wasn't a big deal because it was hidden. The remaining paint on the hub of the rotor looked good for a while, but has now begun rusting through, particularly on the edges. It's still a lot better than the pure-rust mess before, but not as good as I'd like. (I just checked and it's been 2 years... and 2 midwestern winters... so maybe my expectations are too high. )

Perhaps normal engine enamel is more durable than the high-temp? Anyone have some good long-term experience with painted rotors?

By the way, I looked at some 2005 Mercedes wagons that had been sitting on the dealer lot for a while. They had open-style wheels and I noticed that their silver colored rotor hubs already had some rust peeking through. I don't know if they are painted or plated.

Does anyone have any direct experience with cadimum/nickel plated rotors as far as rust-protection?
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Last edited by Benzwood; 07-05-2005 at 08:43 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-05-2005, 11:18 PM
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Cadmium is outlawed for protective plating I believe, it rubs off you know being softer than other plating materials and can poison the body like lead as it is a heavy metal that accumulates in the blood.
The only place a few cad plated fasteners are still allowed is some aircraft applications. I doubt anyone really puts cadmium onto brake rotors or calipers in the US anyhow. Nickel plating would hold up a few years I think but certainly there are some powder coatings like Jet Hot that might be longer lasting (and better looking). check out: (I am not familiar with Andrews personally)
http://www.powdercoater.com/index.html
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  #13  
Old 07-05-2005, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktlimq
MB rotors were soft to reduce chance of cracking. To match that rotor,
MB chose pads to match such rotors, and it happened that the pads produced much brake dust. D-Chrysler did not recommend ceramic pads.

I read this at a web page that contains talks by big 3's at conference. I copied and pasted the content mercedesshop forum, but I forgot which post it was.
I did some searching, found that the cracking is mostly occuring due to poor quality of drilled rotors. to quote BrianH:
"Yep, that'd be because they are not drilled. Porsche only uses cast holes. Drilled rotors are bad.....very bad!
True, Porsche does cast their stock rotors so the holes don't weaken the molecular integrity of the metal. The new Carrera GT and Enzo use ceramic rotors that are drilled, not cast but that's a whole different world. After-market Zimmermans (which I use for racing) are all drilled with chamfered edges to relieve structural stress. As long as the holes don't cut into the veins of the center venting there won't be any cracking. I have seen cheapo (APC) drilled rotors on Hondas that have cracked, but I think that matches the cracked bondo on their bumpers nicely."

Meanwhile my ATE slotted rotors and Akebono ceramic pads keep on performing precisely, quietly and very smoothly and almost ZERO dust
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  #14  
Old 07-06-2005, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Cadmium is outlawed for protective plating I believe
Hmm... several of the sellers mentioned above claim cadmium coating.

Nobody here has any experience with them as far as rust protection?
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  #15  
Old 07-07-2005, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzwood
Hmm... several of the sellers mentioned above claim cadmium coating.

Nobody here has any experience with them as far as rust protection?
I may stand corrected, in that platers WILL use cad plating for commercial customers, at least those that do not have any environmental requirements.

I suspect that most of the calipers you see are tin-zinc plated with a yellow chromate wash to give them a golden apparance.
I found this informative webpage about Cad plating: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HRR/is_2000_Fall/ai_68156142

"Cadmium has had a toxic label put on it, and most of Europe, Asia and now many U.S. companies refuse to have parts coated with cadmium. Japan prohibited the use of cadmium many years ago and has done most of the research into cadmium replacements. Cadmium plating has many outstanding qualities that have been difficult to duplicate, the most important being high corrosion resistance. Contrary to the hype, cadmium plating is still easily available and is safely applied by platers.

Zinc alloys were developed to provide alternatives to cadmium plating. The zinc alloys all have many excellent features, but none of them seems to be a perfect replacement for cadmium plating. Tin-zinc alloy plating seems to be better in many aspects. Tin-zinc offers superior corrosion protection, even after the part is crimped or bent, as in the case of a threaded insert or a rivet. AVK Industrial Products, the world leader in threaded inserts, has embraced this plating finish that enables it to offer an extensive product list featuring outstanding corrosion resistance. Tin-zinc also has excellent ductility and solderability, as well as high resistance to salt and acidic environments."

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