I recently bought a set of aftermarket rims that were supposed to be a direct fit for our 98 E320.

When I checked the rims, I found the bolt holes were 15mm vs 13mm on the OE rims. Rim spec says they should have R13 ball sockets. Rims are from Fast Wheels, Replika series R169.

Supplier closed for weekend, so asking here:

Is it acceptable to have 15mm bolt holes when using 12mm lug bolts? Rims are hub-centric.

__________________
Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

I don’t think you’d be the first to do use wheels intended for 14mm lug bolts with 12 mm lugs. I’ve seen plenty of ball seat lugs in wheels intended for cone seat and even vice versa. I can’t tell you what’s safe and what’s not.

__________________
Past mb: '73 450sl, '81 280slc stick, '71 250, '72 250c, '70 250c, '79 280sl, '73 450sl, parted: '75 240d stick, '69 280s, '73 450slc, '72 450sl,

Good to see you over here Fonzi

I have been trying educate myself on this while waiting to get back to vendor on Monday. I already know that I will have to buy new bolts because of length. By then, I should know what radius the seats have. They say R13, which might make sense for them, seeing R12 and R14 bolts would work.

I was concerned about 12mm bolts being such a loose fit in 15mm holes. May not be an issue. I suppose I could put in some sleeves. 13x15mm tubing is available. Probably won't do that if rim manufacturer says new bolts are all I need.

__________________
Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

I believe that it is possible to find 12mm shank bolts with oversized heads, but basically a specially shaped washer would cut the mustard if it was even a concern.

__________________
Past mb: '73 450sl, '81 280slc stick, '71 250, '72 250c, '70 250c, '79 280sl, '73 450sl, parted: '75 240d stick, '69 280s, '73 450slc, '72 450sl,

The rim company (Fast Wheels) sell lug bolts as do the Tire company. But they don't say what they would included. So I need to find that out.

The bolt length I will need is 26mm +/- 2mm. The studs would be 12x1.5. If rim spec is correct, head would be R13. I have not been able to find bolts that meet those requirements.

Some aftermarket bolt suppliers (like this one) have ball seat bolts as well as radius seat bolts. The radius seat bolts are R13, but only in 14mm. The Ball seat bolts are available in teh size I need, but what is a Ball Seat? R12/13/14 or something else? Maybe it is not that important to be precise.

Anyway, I guess I will find out Monday just what vendor suggests.

__________________
Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

Vendor is sending me 28mm bolts, apparently with R12 heads, although my guess is that they may be 13mm. No way of really checking and doubt it makes any diffrence.

The tire company customer service lady is very helpful, but didn't really understand my question about the 15mm drilling vs 13mm OE. She asked me to send some pictures. Posting them here, just to illustrate my question. I am sure the rims will mount OK, but rim company said they custom machine rims to suit customer's cars.

__________________
Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

The larger bolt holes are the safe bet because the w140 and many later MB cars use 14x1.5 lugs instead of 12x1.5. I learned that I had only one set of wheels that would fit my w140 when I sold the stock wheels from it for $300. I got very lucky and found a set of wheels for sale locally that had the larger lug bolt holes and fit on the car, fortunately for only $100. I don’t think the $200 savings was worth all the effort. I never envisioned the problem since I have an insane amount of wheels to choose from. These wheels the bender provided you assure that’s not a problem. As long as the wheels are held tightly on the centering hubs, and they are warranted against cracking at the lug holes, I’d think you are fine. You can also ask the manufacturer the torque specs they recommend.

__________________
Past mb: '73 450sl, '81 280slc stick, '71 250, '72 250c, '70 250c, '79 280sl, '73 450sl, parted: '75 240d stick, '69 280s, '73 450slc, '72 450sl,

Thanks Fonzi
Consensus seems to be that it is ok to use 12mm bolts in rims drilled for 14mm bolts and having R12/13/14 seats.
Anyway, I have rear wheels installed. Had to cut down the 28mm bolts (that were actually about 29mm). Now 26mm.

I'd be worried unless using some type of piping you could cut to make a washer to take up the slack. Like slide over the lug bolt, but short enough to let ball or taper seat.

__________________
1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran

I had thought about doing something like that. It is possible to buy 13x15mm tubing. That would have to be cut into approx 8mm long pieces.

The wheel is of course centered by the hub, so no problem there. Installing sleeves would be to minimize any rotational movement of the rim against the hub, if torque and friction between rim and hub were not sufficient to prevent that. 12mm and 14mm bolts do have about 1mm slack in the holes. My 12mm bolts have 3mm slack.

Everyone including rim manufacturer, bolt suppliers, other owners, tell me that these sleeves are not needed. Yet my instinct tells me that the bolt holes should not be oversize. Many owners put later model rims drilled for R14 14mm bolts on earlier cars that normally use 12mm R12 bolts. Sometimes with R14 head 12mm bolts.

Wheels are now installed with 12mm R12 bolts 26mm long. Thread protrusion ~17mm. I would like to find 12mm R13 26mm bolts with TUV approval. And then maybe add those sleeves! However, this not being a racecar, that may not happen!

__________________
Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

Did a search to see if anyone has adressed this "problem" with sleeves. Not much out there! However, did find this link. It is related to commercial vehicles. Seems like a simple idea - Put sleeves on say 3 bolts and screw then in by hand. Put the other bolts and tighten them down (by hand). Take the sleeves out one at a time, reinsert bolt and tighten by hand. Wheel should now be centered and bolts can be torqued to spec.

Doesn't address bolts being undersized for holes though.

__________________
Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5