This ought to give people some pause - 18 months in Federal prison for odometer fraud - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pwogaman · #1 10-28-2008, 07:53 AM

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2008/October/08-civ-932.html

If you ask me that is not long enough. Making him pay $191K in restitution is a nice little kicker though.

Dee8go · #2 10-28-2008, 08:50 AM

I have wondered about this as I've read posts about people with non-working odometers. If it's broken, and then you fix it, how do you avoid running afoul of the law? Is it just a matter of stating on the title that the odometer has been repaired and does not reflect the true mileage?

OldPokey · #3 10-28-2008, 06:08 PM

I think the important thing here is "Intent to Defraud". If you fix the broken odometer in your 20 year old Mercedes, and it ends up being a few thousand miles off because it took you awhile to get around to it - I doubt anybody is going to go after you. However, if you get an old beater, subject it to a "Sherwin Williams" restoration, roll the odometer back 200,000 miles and list it as a "low mileage creampuff" - you're obviously trying to defraud somebody.

Usually these cases are pretty clear cut.

horsttappert · #4 10-28-2008, 06:50 PM

when a car is over 10 years old it's not a felony anymore and you won't go to prison. I roll the odo forward usually, to get the MB high mileage badge and researched the legality of that.

horsttappert · #5 10-28-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Cohen

In what country, Mexico?

In the U.S.A, the individual state DMV's takes a very dim view of any person who tampers(rolls forward OR back) with the odometer of ANY vehicle. It is a felony and you might go to jail.

You can buy those worthless high mileage badges on fleabay, why would anyone lower the value of a car just to get a plastic badge?

odometer: exempt/ exceeds mechanical limits is what I usually find on titles of old mercedes'...

brucem105 · #6 10-28-2008, 08:37 PM

Most of the laws do not really cover rolling the odometer forwards or backwards. It's your car and you can do what you want with it.

However, as soon as you gain something by rolling the odometer, and that gain is achieved by being dishonest, or you are dishonest when you're required to disclose mileage, then it's illegal.

For example, if I liked my odometer to read 44,444 all the time, I could roll it every day to keep it there, and that's my business. But if I got warranty work done claiming it had under 50K when it didn't, or sold it as 44,444 when it wasn't, then I am breaking the law.

And if you are a business like a car dealer, it's looked at far more negatively as the assumption is it's ONLY done for (monetary) gain.

Bruce

pwogaman · #7 10-29-2008, 06:55 AM

Regardless of whether you must certify on a title or other transfer document that the mileage is actual or not does not mean that you can still represent to a buyer that the mileage is less than what it is. To a buyer the mileage is still important and can mean the difference in deciding whether or not to buy a car and if so, then how much to pay for it. In legal terms, that is "misrepresentation of a material fact upon which reasonable reliance is placed to a detriment." Also known as fraud.

Here is some more on it: http://www.usdoj.gov/civil/ocl/monograph/odom.htm

Here is the actual federal law on it (which preempts state laws): http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa/cfc_title49/actchap321-331.html#32703

With some nice quotes:

§ 32703. Preventing tampering
A person may not--
(1) advertise for sale, sell, use, install, or have installed, a device that makes an odometer of a motor vehicle register a mileage different from the mileage the vehicle was driven, as registered by the odometer within the designed tolerance of the manufacturer of the odometer;
(2) disconnect, reset, alter, or have disconnected, reset, or altered, an odometer of a motor vehicle intending to change the mileage registered by the odometer;
(3) with intent to defraud, operate a motor vehicle on a street, road, or highway if the person knows that the odometer of the vehicle is disconnected or not operating; or
(4) conspire to violate this section or section 32704 or 32705 of this title.

§ 32704. Service, repair, and replacement
(a) Adjusting mileage.--A person may service, repair, or replace an odometer of a motor vehicle if the mileage registered by the odometer remains the same as before the service, repair, or replacement. If the mileage cannot remain the same--
(1) the person shall adjust the odometer to read zero; and
(2) the owner of the vehicle or agent of the owner shall attach a written notice to the left door frame of the vehicle specifying the mileage before the service, repair, or replacement and the date of the service, repair, or replacement.
(b) Removing or altering notice.--A person may not, with intent to defraud, remove or alter a notice attached to a motor vehicle as required by this section.

horsttappert · #8 10-31-2008, 02:34 AM

pretty sure over 50% of mb odometers have been rolled back. especially the easy ones

Dee8go · #9 10-31-2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horsttappert

when a car is over 10 years old it's not a felony anymore and you won't go to prison. I roll the odo forward usually, to get the MB high mileage badge and researched the legality of that.

You gotta love a car that people aspire to MORE, rather than LESS mileage than what is actual. We, unlike most other car owners, take particular pride in having as many miles as possible on our cars.

asnowsquall · #10 10-31-2008, 07:53 PM

Frankly, I really don't care what the mileage is on my $500 Mercedes

pwogaman · #11 11-02-2008, 05:06 PM

I wonder what the interpretation of "registered" mileage is. For instance, if my car goes 5 miles and the odometer reads 5 miles, then if can be fairly said to have registered 5 miles. Taking that a bit further, I wonder if when my car goes 5 miles and the odometer reads 6, can you then also say that the car has registered AT LEAST 5 miles even though it shows more than that with 6? Does "register" equal "display," as in current display, or could "register" also mean inclusion of at least a given amount? In other words, can an odometer displaying 20,000 miles be said to have registered 12,000 miles? Does the extra displayed 8,000 miles mean that the odometer no longer registers 12,000? Seems like it is okay to add in the extra under this construction, particularly when the apparent aim of the regulation is to prevent people from paying more than what a car is worth when factoring in the mileage.

brucem105 · #12 11-02-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwogaman

I wonder what the interpretation of "registered" mileage is. For instance, if my car goes 5 miles and the odometer reads 5 miles, then if can be fairly said to have registered 5 miles. Taking that a bit further, I wonder if when my car goes 5 miles and the odometer reads 6, can you then also say that the car has registered AT LEAST 5 miles even though it shows more than that with 6? Does "register" equal "display," as in current display, or could "register" also mean inclusion of at least a given amount? In other words, can an odometer displaying 20,000 miles be said to have registered 12,000 miles? Does the extra displayed 8,000 miles mean that the odometer no longer registers 12,000? Seems like it is okay to add in the extra under this construction, particularly when the apparent aim of the regulation is to prevent people from paying more than what a car is worth when factoring in the mileage.

Huh? I missed something....what do you mean?

sdpartz · #13 11-03-2008, 01:01 AM

TMU .....True Mileage Unknown If the car has been driven with a broken odometer, speedo replaced with another representing a different mileage I would "think" declearing TMU would cover a seller of any liability as far as mileage. Frankly if I like the car (& the price) mileage does not matter in fact I will be looking purchase a W123 tommorow with unknown mileage.

97 C230
95 C220
94 C280
98 ML320