I did see your ad. I work weekends and I wouldn't be able to make the long of a trip. Louisiana is about 650 miles from me. Thanks though.

__________________
www.myadvoforum.com
http://advopal.com

I agree but they aren't as reliable as the M103s are. M103s are also cheaper still. I'm only keeping my M119s because I happen to be "one of those who has to be the fastest guy on the road."
Regards, Eric

__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

Would it help if I stay a few extra days? Would Monday or Tuesday work for you?
Regards, Eric

__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

We have a common disease my friend!

Not intending to step on your sales pitch, and I can respect that you've been in the junkyard business, but I have had all of the cars mentioned and my experience is different than yours (having owned no diesel 124s and no M104s).

My M103s had problems, mostly with the CIS and distributor/ignition system (including the $$$ ignition coil/brain). The change to a more powerful and fuel efficient distributorless engine without CIS was to me a positive one, and driving it is so much more enjoyable. I had little maintenance on my M104s other than ignition wires and spark plugs.

As far as the "cheapening" of the cars, really didn't happen. At this time Mercedes wasn't interested in cheapening one of their car platforms that was leaving, a complete waste of engineering and tooling that would have been, they focused their efforts on the (arguably cheapened) W210 platform soon to be released. The plastic oil tube you mention are in the V-8, not the M104.

I have several connections in area junkyards, get calls whenever there is a Mercedes that either has been or can be bought by the yard. In 4 years I have not yet seen an M104 in the yard but dozens of M103 cars, and one OM603 car. Seems that the M104 and OM603 cars are still driving around, I do realize that the M103 cars are low enough in value that a rough one just isn't worth fixing and plentiful and that will skew the junkyard data though.

As I stated before, and still regarding the OP, diesel people are diesel people, period. I have had all of the cars mentioned, liked them, but the only reason I'm going to drive a 16-25y/o car is because it is something different and enjoyable. The 300E just (to me) isn't that car, it's just an old car that is safer and less common than the average car in its price range. Therefore, I am the aforementioned diesel guy, just like I would be if driving a 123, diesel, a 116 would have to be a 6.3, etc.

So where does this leave the M103/300E? A solid car for a low price if you're mechanical and resourceful enough to be able to keep it all working at a reasonable price. If you are not, don't buy an old Mercedes, or buy one unique and valueable enough to justify the high price of maintenance.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Here's the deal: I'm being offered a seat in a 24 hours of Lemons race this weekend to replace not one but two drivers who canceled at the last minute but I really can't afford the $250 bucks it's gonna take me to get back there much less the additional $250 bucks it's gonna take me to get back home again unless I have a good chance of selling a car in the process. So, I may just go ahead and go up to where you are when the race is over if you indicate to me it wouldn't be a waste of my time to do so. But I need to know TONIGHT because my trip to La. is hinging on whether or not I can make this trip pay for itself. There is another party in Florida that I am hoping to meet as well but they haven't given me a definitive answer yet either. I only need one of you two to commit to see me for me to be able to justify this trip and hopefully be able to reimburse myself for the expenditure. If I am going, I need to know tonight.
Regards, Eric

__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

Dont M103s have headgasket issues as well?

The only real problems with M119s are the oil feeder tubes (and you can ignore those if you want, from what I hear--if not it's an easy afternoon DIY) and the wiring harness. Mine's certainly been quite trouble-free, aside from basic maintenance and a leaking p/s system.

And btw, if I were to move back to the US I would seriously consider picking up your '89! Love these cars.

__________________
2002 BMW 330Ci, Benzless at the moment.

Past: 1994 E420, various W123 240D rustbuckets

Automotive recycling business, thank you . I also ran another guy's yard before I had one of my own to run, so we are talking about more than just a little experience. Experience that gave me a broader view of the car population as a whole rather than just experience with just a few of them.

Again, MY M103 W124s ARE THE MOST RELIABLE CARS I HAVE EVER OWNED AND/OR DRIVEN AND I HAVE BEEN DRIVING SINCE THE SUMMER ELVIS ALLEGEDLY DIED. Maybe your CIS cars were 90 or later ones. Those aren't as reliable because of the changes made to them to meet the more stringent emissions regulations that went into force at the time. These changes added unnecessary and undesirable additional complexity that reduced their reliability. Since the M104 didn't come out till 90, they suffer this same fate. Yes, both generations of the M104 are faster. No, they are not as reliable. And you will pay a pretty severe price premium for an M104 whether it is a HFM one or an older CIS one because CIS M104s only came in the 2 doors as we all know. For about the same money as an M104, guys who want more power can get even more power than an M104 with an M119 as I have done and others here have done too and the mileage penalty is negligible because of the 400E/E420s super tall 2.24 gears compared to the 2.65/2.87/3.06/3.07 gears of the various M104s. Yes, it's true, I don't own nor have ever an M104 car, but that is by choice because of what I know about them.

I strongly disagree here and I think we have already had this argument on another thread. The cheapening did happen. It was already well under way and in later years it really manifested itself in the poor reliability that we all know the later MBs suffer from. The open deck blocks that replaced the closed deck blocks in 93 and the plastic oil tubes that showed up that year too are good examples. Another good example of this evil, relentless penny pinching that infected the company is the fact that the M104 had it's piston cooling oil jets taken away from it at the end of 94. And much as we all love the W124, it is a cheaper built car than it's predecessor, the W123. A good example of this is the W123's proper, double control arm front suspension that uses forged steel pieces vs. the pogo stick modified strut suspension of the W124 that, even though it only has one measly control arm instead of two like it should have, MB still makes that arm out of cheaper stamped steel. Even on my Volvos that lower arm is made from forged steel! Even my beloved SOHC M103s are obviously a cheaper built engine than the DOHC engine that preceded it. There is more than one way to cheapen a car and it's drive train and I am sure there are other ways they cheapened the cars and their drive trains that we don't know about. I am very suspicious of the quality of the engine bearings used in the later engines. (There MB, I said it. Come sue me if you want.) Yes, the M104 was obviously a more expensive engine to produce than the M103 was but that was only because competition had forced MB to put more performance and features into the cars. But at the same time their relentless penny pinching was taking the quality out.

The last part of that paragraph explains the first part. Also, there were less W124s being sold by the time the M104s came out.... there just aren't as many of them.

It would definitely help if the OP made more clear what his preferences are.

Again, the M103 cars are reliable. They are in fact the cars that hooked many of us, including me, on W124s! Your assertion that one needs to be "mechanical and resourceful enough to be able to keep it all working at a reasonable price" is just plain inaccurate.
Regards, Eric

__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

Yes, they aren't perfect. No engine is.

It's simply that the quality control was going down hill as the years wore on. My 93 400E has given more more trouble than both of my M103 cars put together. This is in spite of the fact that my 400E is a newer car and still only has 140,000 miles on it while the two 300Es are sporting 194,000 and 234,000 miles! There is a lot of stupid but exasperating stuff like the power port (cigarette lighter) has lost it's power again and I can't figure out why as everything is as it should be. This means I can't run my radar detector, a potentially costly situation. The radio also cuts out for days at a time only to come back again as if nothing happened. This means no traffic reports when I need them most. (The radio always cuts out at the worst times!) The lights in the vanity mirror work intermittently, usually coming on right about the time I have already finished removing the irritant from my eye and am already to close the thing. This stuff is probably due to poorly tightened and/or assembled grounds. This is an original Calif. car that has been here it's whole life so there is no excuse especially when the older Benzes do their jobs so well which is an indication that they were screwed together better. This stuff drives me nuts. If it wasn't for the extra hundred horsepower that I do enjoy so thoroughly, this car would have been dumped on Craigslist ages ago. (Craigslist because I wouldn't feel right dumping this thing on any of you. [Edit: Except Tyler.] )

Thanks! It would be the best $1,600 you ever spent!
Regards, Eric

__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

About every car I look at where the owner has said its always been reliable and never has any issues have at least $2000 worth of stuff wrong with them.

On my dealer OVE site I can get a 60,000 original mile 1990 300E for $3500. I'm assuming everything works from the description. There is also a minty 90 300D 2.5 on there with 175k for a bit more.

A 200k 300E with title, paint, body issues and various leaks and mechanical problems, dead AC, to me is only worth as sub 1k beater. Its pretty obvious that if the cars were worth purchasing someone would have pulled the trigger on it in the last 6 months you've been advertising.

Nobody wants the 300Es. With no maintenance history, I'm assuming at 200k the car is a ticking time bomb. Head gasket, valve seals, transmission, suspension, evaporator, axle boots, etc, etc. No thanks. MB enthusiasts know better than to buy basket cases, with the exception of a few die hard DIYers who don't overpay.

__________________
1985 500SL Euro w/ AMG bits 130k
1984 300SD Turbodiesel 192k
1980 240D Stick China 188k
2001 CLK55 AMG 101k
2007 S600 Biturbo 149k Overheated Project, IT'S ALIVE!!!

Well, there is a first time for everything and this is it. Perhaps you missed the part where I just offered to drive one of these cars 2,500 miles to where the OP is. Do you think I would take that kind of chance driving a car across some of the most desolate parts of this country (Arizona, New Mexico) during weather so cold it can kill a person? (Flagstaff is at 7,000 foot elevation.) Your post is way out of line. This is the most offensive post I have ever seen here on this site.

And about every car I've seen with mileage too low to be believed has turned out to be a scam.

Look at the pictures and read the ad again. Find me a better looking/running car for the price with an owner who is willing to drive it across the country. And I made it VERY CLEAR THESE CAR'S ISSUES ARE MINOR. Read the Ad!!! Your "various leaks and mechanical problems, dead AC," statement paints a picture that is very far removed from the facts. For example, "dead AC" implies something is broken. That's analogous to saying a car that is out of gas is "dead" which of course is idiotic. Again, your post is out of line.

And later in the ad I explained several reasons why the cars haven't sold. This is one of them: As most everybody (except you) in the rest of the country already knows, Californians are idiots. Their attachment to Asian cars borders on obsessive. Remember, Cali is where Asian cars first got their original toe hold in this country. If you look at all of my posts here and the posts of all the folks who interact with me, you'll see that I am the ONLY Southern Californian here. There are only two other guys on this site from my area of this state. One is a 500E owner that I brought here, and the other a crazy but cool owner of a seriously hopped-up diesel W126 who I think ended up here because of my ongoing dragstrip thread. That's it! And neither of them need another car. That's why my most recent bump of the ad is it's last and I have already stated that there.

Again, I've got the stones to back up my assertion that these are great cars by driving one of them cross-country. You, on the other hand, only have the stones to run your mouth. I hereby officially invite you to keep it shut. You are way out of line to be badmouthing other peoples cars, especially ones that you have never seen or driven before and have no real knowledge of.
Sincerely, Eric

__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

Okay, I give up. The '94/'95 124 was somehow cheapened by trading the antique M103 for the upgraded twin-cam high-performance and lower maintenance M104, with higher fuel mlieage and power. It was further cheapened by the installation of the newer grille, ornament, and more expensive re-tooled hood, as well as the new Euro-style glass headlamps replacing the really crappy plastic / combinaton lights from '93 and before, even further by replacing the stupid manual left mirror with an electric one, a new cruise control that is actually reliable, new 4-puck front brakes replacing the rather pedestrian 1-piston floaters that were on the 300E, upgraded stereo, standard storage armrest, real trunk liner and re-designed trunk lid without the cheesy plastic insert, newer lights, newer rear bumper with full-wrap rub-strip (finally smooth to match the bumpers), other things I can't remember currently. You keep bringing up the plastic oil tubes, which were on the V-8, not the I-6, so I agree that the later V-8 has its problem but we're talking 6cylinder here.

If you're talking pre-'90 you are even in a car with plastic door cards, plastic steering wheel, and plastic shifter that was all upgraded to leather in '90 plus the much better supported seats of the later version, better stereo in the later versions with subs in the doors and real speakers in the rear shelf, lower body cladding to replace the little black rub-strip, and zebrano wood added across the dash and doors. Yeah, cheapened.

But your cigarette lighter doesn't work? And your visor/vanity mirror lights are intermittant (unchanged from '86 through '95)? Yeah, must have been cheapened.

Good luck selling your 300E, I'm looking at a straight '93 driver with leather and no rust for $500 because I want the Euro lights, will scrap/part the rest. If they need so much as an ignition controller and they're worth more as scrap than they're worth to fix, just the reality of the market.

I have an '87, it's the only one I kept because I really want a diesel 124T, it's the only year. Would rather have a '95 diesel wagon if they made one because of the many body & interior upgrades, even would consider building one with my spare OM603, because havng owned, driven, and being involved in engineering with the 124 for the past 20+ years I have found it to be that much better.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Sure is a long post for someone who has "given up"
You forgot the cabin air filters that showed up in 94.
You only got the 4-puck brakes if you got a 3.2 or larger engine. The 2.8 and smaller engined W124s still only had the 1-piston brakes. Remember, in the rest of the world, the majority of the W124s came with smaller engines including 4 cylinders. (We Americans are often resented because we all too often don't take a "Global" view of things.)
For the record, I prefer the manual mirror. One less thing to break on you and you don't have to take your eyes off the road to locate the switch.
You know as well as I do that the storage armrest was added because they took away the proper glove box so they could add another air bag. (Another added feature that you forgot.) That armrest is a joke! I can't even store my owners manual in there!

Again, you are confusing "features" and "amenities" with underlying "quality". I'm talking about how, over time, MB has slowly but deliberately moved away from building tanks that could go 500,000 miles on "roads" in third world countries that would be called "trails" here. Now, they are only building cars that barely meet the competition's longevity and durability instead of beating it. I chalk it up to the bean counter bankers that have a stake in the company.

I bring up the plastic oil tubes because it is a good example of the diabolical, hidden, cheapening that was occurring. Anyone who has seen my posts on this site knows that those tubes have personally caused me quite a lot of misery. All just so that MB could save a few cents. It's really quite maddening! Now I'm supposed to pay some operator $75-$125 for a set of metal tubes that my 95 should have already had! All MB needed to do was just continue to do things the way they had been doing them instead of trying to save a few pennies. I now have to pay a hundred just so MB could save a nickel! I swear I would really hurt the person responsible for that decision if I could get my hands on them! Remember, this newer gang of tightwads were building your newer 6s too. Who knows what corners they cut? We already know that they took away it's piston cooling oil jets. And before you post that those weren't that big of a benefit, I'll ask this: If that is true, then why did MB even bother putting them there in the first place? And why are so many OEMs using them now?

Again, you are confusing "features" and "amenities" with underlying tank like "quality".

Did you miss the part in that post where I talked about "Quality Control"? The older cars were clearly screwed together better.

How many ignition controllers do you want? I've got three spares in my garage, not that I've ever needed one because I have NEVER EVER had one fail on me! There are 5 more at my local U-Pull-It and plenty more at the neighboring ones. Anybody want/need any? I'll send you all that you want for $45 apiece including shipping! And I will pre-test each and every one of them on my own M103 before I ship them! That is the "reality of the market"! For $55 apiece including shipping, I'll send you all of the pre-tested CIS ECUs that you can handle too! Heck, I'll even throw in some spares with the cars if the buyer(s) wants!

As you said in your prior post, "my experience is different than yours".

Jeff, I haven't forgotten how you gave my van ad a nice bump. I am grateful for that and appreciate it. I'm not saying the later cars are total garbage, I'm just trying to point out that the older ones aren't either. Again, show me a car for the same amount of money that mine are available for where the owner is willing to drive them cross country. These are not just some cars that I am trying to flip. We brought our son home from the hospital in the 88 and our daughter home from the hospital in the 89. (In both cases our 400E wasn't up to it and we didn't even have the 95 yet, not that it would have been up to it either.) The 89 is the car that hooked me on W124s! They are good cars and are very special to us. We want to find them good home(s). You can't blame me for resisting inaccurate posts that would harm our chances of achieving our goal.
Regards, Eric

__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

Gentlemen - this thread was created by the OP with the intention of expressing his desire to purchase a W124. It was not intended to become a M103 vs. M104 showdown.

If you wish to offer a car for sale to the OP, please reply in kind. Otherwise I would respectfully ask for further discussions to be moved to an appropriate forum.

Thank you.

__________________
Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired

"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon

If you read the OP, it was a 300D 124 he requested, which was then turned into a you don't want a diesel 124 thread, ...

Then in post #4 the OP participated in the diesel vs 103 discussion, and the M104 element was also introduced. Seems to me like it served a useful purpose until the thread was abandoned weeks ago.

I'm a little puzzled why you wish to re-open it?

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff