My experience tells me that even Kelley Blue Book is high, pie-the-sky high.

I have purchased all of the cars I've ever owned (except one) used, both on a dealer's lot and private party.

I've sold all of my cars private party.

In every case, every car I've bought and sold, the price has always been near wholesale blue book, below and above.

I copied this article from the Edmunds website, and it further explains what Kelley Blue Book really is anyway:

What is the "Kelley Blue Book" Price?
Last updated: 2002-02-12

Let's say you are looking to buy a house. You find one in a neighborhood you like, and you know how much the seller is offering to sell it for — its "listing price."

You'd like your broker's help figuring out what that house is "worth" — what a fair price would be for that particular house. So you ask your broker to research what similar houses in that neighborhood have sold for recently.


This is the first in an occasional series on Kelley Blue Book and used vehicle price guides in general.


Suppose your broker came back and said, "Here is a list of comparable houses, and what their listing prices were." "Well," you respond, "That is mildly interesting, but what I need to know is what they sold for. Most likely none of those sellers got their asking price. Only if I know the actual transaction prices for the other houses will I have some idea of what a fair price is for the house I want."

This concept may seem self-evident. But if it is, why do consumers forget all about it when they go shopping for a used car? Here is what frequently happens.

You find a used car you are interested in on a dealer's lot, and you need to figure out how much you are willing to pay for it. The negotiation process is about to begin, and you want it to result in your buying the car for a fair price.

All too often, however, the dealer will direct your attention to a printed price guide — and often it will be the Kelley Blue Book. (Kelley publishes more than one price guide for used cars, but the one your dealer is likely to use is the one labeled "Kelley Blue Book Auto Market Report — Official Guide," the version of the book that Kelley sells to dealers.)

The salesperson will look up the car you are shopping for in the Kelley Blue Book, and will point to the "retail" price for that car. And then he will assert that since the price he is asking is quite a bit less, you should rest assured that he is asking a fair price. The implication is: why negotiate further?

But what is that "Kelley Blue Book" value he showed you? Is it the price at which cars like yours have recently sold to other buyers? Is it even an estimate of the actual transaction prices?

Surprising to most used car buyers, it is not! It is only an estimate by Kelley of the "listing" prices being asked by dealers — not what they are really getting for the car. As Kelley forthrightly says in the book, these are "suggested retail values" (although we bet that your dealer won't show that to you). The book clearly states:

SUGGESTED RETAIL VALUES represent Kelley Blue Book's estimated dealer asking price. The actual selling price may vary substantially. (Italics added.)
Yes, we agree with that: In our opinion, they do vary substantially. And in most cases, they are likely to be substantially lower than the asking price. After all, how many sellers of houses, or anything negotiable for that matter, get their asking price?

And as the version of the Kelley Blue Book that Kelley offers to consumers states:
Retail Values represent what a dealer may ask for the vehicle once it has been inspected, reconditioned and possibly warranted. This is the "Asking Price" and you may expect to pay less. (Italics added.)
Yes, based on our research, you often may expect to pay a lot less.

Our advice is simple: If a salesperson whips out a copy of the dealer edition of the Kelley Blue Book and points to one of its retail prices, say to him or her: "It is nice to know the price that Kelley thinks dealers are asking for this car, but can you show me what dealers are actually selling this car for?"

And if the dealer says that Kelley doesn't publish those values, ask him to tell you the dealer retail Edmunds.com True Market Value® for the car. That TMV® price is the estimated average selling price for your car, and it's what you need to know to negotiate a fair price.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Thank you Paul, for you dissertation on Kelly Blue Book values and Edmunds True Value. You have answered a lot of my questions.

The Edmunds.com TV on my 96 C280 that I have posted here for sale is a little higher than the KBB private party value for the Atlanta area. I am asking about 500 above the TV value for outstanding condition although I have to repair the right outside rear view mirror yet - probably the switch, but haven't trouble shot it. My rationale for asking a little over TV outanding is that I just had the head gasket replaced by a non-dealer MB specialty reapir garage that gave me a one year unlimited mileage warranty. I haven't asked him yet, but hoping he will transfer this warranty to a new owner which provides the prospective buyer with somewhat of a warranty sort of similar to purchasing a car from a dealer with a 30 day warranty. Not nearly as much, but worth something. The asking price also represents the lowest advertised price of comparable cars advertised by individuals in the Atlanta area. The car also has a telescoping steering wheel which I left out of the add.

I've probably bought as many used as new over the past fifty years. Most of the used ones, except one, was purchased from an individual.

Thanks again for you words of enlightenment.

Hilton Smith

I have found that the Edmunds True Value is a better estimation of value than Kelley Blue Book.

However, I might suggest that you ought not get no premium for the car because the head gasket was replaced.

Outstanding condition assumes the car is perfect and this is adjusted for in the True Value estimation.

I reckon you'll have trouble getting full outstanding value, and might speculate it'll be closer to Good condition.

But, it doesn't hurt to start high because they'll only start negotiating down from whatever asking price you set.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Thanks again for your commentary. I may drop my asking price. I started at 17,950 in the local papers because, as I have said, that is below other 96 C280's with even higher mileage and I have since dropped that to 17,500 and may hold that in the local papers for another week or so.

I'm also trying to sell my mother-in-laws 92 Honda Accord with 85K miles. I am too embarassed to post it as I have three already.

Hilton Smith

Man was that a beautiful 126! Too bad it wasn't a diesel.

Yes, it was...
I contemplated buying it myself...
Then realized that I could probably not even afford the registration fee!

__________________
Current: '91 300TE 4MATIC 317k and climbing...
Former:
'81 300TD Wagon 168K "Tank"
'83 240D 216K 4spd manual "Da Bear" (aka best car ever)

"Never sweat the petty things...
and never pet the sweaty things."