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  #16  
Old 05-09-2015, 05:10 PM
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I think a lot of it is going to come down to people are going to do whatever they think they can get away with.

The internet will help a lot. I find something that works and share it; someone else takes it and finds a way to tweak that, and so forth.

In Texas there was once a sport of seeing what you could do and still pass the smog tests. Some folks would tune their cars one way and then, when smog time rolled around, would tune it back. I think the same thing will happen here.
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  #17  
Old 05-09-2015, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Interesting. Most of the people who do tear apart the program that I know of seem to find very little done to custom tune the program. Usually it is something as simple as turning on the fan at a lower temp or just dumping more fuel across the board. Much like advancing the distributor a few degrees. I'll have to ask people who tune those chips.

My car (stock) hits about 16psi of boost. The tune cranks it up to about 23-24. The internals are definitely stout enough to take it.


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  #18  
Old 05-09-2015, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tbomachines View Post
My car (stock) hits about 16psi of boost. The tune cranks it up to about 23-24. The internals are definitely stout enough to take it.
I guess I am curious as to whether they really tune across the board or simply either dump fuel or alter the wastegate parameters. What I have seen of the chips is that they attempt to fool the ECM one way or the other as opposed to someone sitting behind the wheel with a laptop to adjust everything so that it is optimized. Even if they made changes to the entire program, how do they know what combination of parts I have? Without that knowledge, they are simply guessing. Kinda why I prefer a dyno tune or a street tune or at the very least, tuning based off datalogs.
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2015, 10:17 PM
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The ones I used to look at came in stages. Just a chip, this one. If you do exhaust and intake, these setups specifically, and this chip. Sometimes it's good to have a tuner mechanic to recommend products that go well together.

But if you have work beyond that, or want to get fancy, dyno required.
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  #20  
Old 05-10-2015, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
I guess I am curious as to whether they really tune across the board or simply either dump fuel or alter the wastegate parameters. What I have seen of the chips is that they attempt to fool the ECM one way or the other as opposed to someone sitting behind the wheel with a laptop to adjust everything so that it is optimized. Even if they made changes to the entire program, how do they know what combination of parts I have? Without that knowledge, they are simply guessing. Kinda why I prefer a dyno tune or a street tune or at the very least, tuning based off datalogs.

Stock tunes are based on stock parts, you're able to send data logs back to the company if you have custom stuff done and they will tweak the tune for you. You can't really go from 15psi to 24 psi and not change a ton of parameters. A lot of the VW guys would report a slight increase in mph when off boost as well.


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  #21  
Old 05-10-2015, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
The ones I used to look at came in stages. Just a chip, this one. If you do exhaust and intake, these setups specifically, and this chip. Sometimes it's good to have a tuner mechanic to recommend products that go well together.

But if you have work beyond that, or want to get fancy, dyno required.
How would you know what exhaust or intake combination I have? If you got a Banks chip, sure. They are built only for his stuff. Put any other combination together and you wandered off the reservation. In fact, IIRC, one of his chips was basically a resistor to fool the ECM into cranking up the oil pressure for the Powerstroke diesel in 7.3L
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
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  #22  
Old 05-10-2015, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tbomachines View Post
Stock tunes are based on stock parts, you're able to send data logs back to the company if you have custom stuff done and they will tweak the tune for you. You can't really go from 15psi to 24 psi and not change a ton of parameters. A lot of the VW guys would report a slight increase in mph when off boost as well.


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If you can send datalogs to them and have them tweak it, that might not be the worst thing in the world, I suppose.
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
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  #23  
Old 05-10-2015, 11:29 PM
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If you can send datalogs to them and have them tweak it, that might not be the worst thing in the world, I suppose.

Pretty reasonable pricing too, I'd be doing it if I wasn't punching every penny for a house right now.


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  #24  
Old 05-11-2015, 12:29 AM
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Pretty reasonable pricing too, I'd be doing it if I wasn't punching every penny for a house right now.


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My Excursion, I can rent the datalogger and send them the logs for programming for $75. First time you give him your information and he makes a guess at what it is. Datalogs for fine tuning if you want.
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
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  #25  
Old 05-11-2015, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim View Post
How would you know what exhaust or intake combination I have? If you got a Banks chip, sure. They are built only for his stuff. Put any other combination together and you wandered off the reservation. In fact, IIRC, one of his chips was basically a resistor to fool the ECM into cranking up the oil pressure for the Powerstroke diesel in 7.3L

Lol. I don't! You do. And someone that does it for a living can tell you what will work together. They will know combos, talk on tuner forums, etc. Some manufactures will work together on stuff.

I cant remember brands. But I had a 98 chevy tahoe, power programer something, flowmaster two chamber, and air something forced air intake. For example.

I dont do this work, but can recommend you to a guy that does. He used to work on my vw. Getting a ride home in his Talon would make me pee my pants. But his focus is suburu and those type of cars. However, he flashed my car. And oh boy. What a difference.

To be honest, I think our opinions our way different. As far as communication, beyond being on different pages, I think we are in completely different libraries.

But I think you are a smart guy and know a lot. And it would be easier to understand what each other is saying if it wasn't in text form.

Last edited by Lucas; 05-11-2015 at 01:43 AM.
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  #26  
Old 05-11-2015, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Idle View Post
This reminds me of the 'sealed' carbs that came out during the late 70's. The car makers whined and cried about this, blamed the government and then threw up their hands with a 'wadda 'ya gona' do attitude.

And anyone with a Ford variable venturi carb knew what to do: Toss it out after the warranty expired and replace it with a real carb.

There was also a big opportunity for anyone with the knowledge of just where to drill on these VV carbs to modify them so they would actually work.

Meanwhile Ford was crying about how it was all the governments fault until people stopped buying Fords. Then they switched to BOSCH fuel injection, something along the lines of an old D-Jet system, until they could design one of their own.

The bottom line: Even with all the government protection they were offered most people just ignored the law and did modifications anyway.

But then the processes were protected with patents. Copyrights run for 72 years after the death of the author so this is a whole new world.

If I own it, I own it.

Maybe I'll replace the motor with a 617 and be done with it!
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  #27  
Old 05-11-2015, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
Lol. I don't! You do. And someone that does it for a living can tell you what will work together. They will know combos, talk on tuner forums, etc. Some manufactures will work together on stuff.

I cant remember brands. But I had a 98 chevy tahoe, power programer something, flowmaster two chamber, and air something forced air intake. For example.

I dont do this work, but can recommend you to a guy that does. He used to work on my vw. Getting a ride home in his Talon would make me pee my pants. But his focus is suburu and those type of cars. However, he flashed my car. And oh boy. What a difference.

To be honest, I think our opinions our way different. As far as communication, beyond being on different pages, I think we are in completely different libraries.

But I think you are a smart guy and know a lot. And it would be easier to understand what each other is saying if it wasn't in text form.
There are some tuners that refuse to tune via email where you tell them what you got and they guess what it takes. Most of the places I have been on, dyno tuning is hands down better than getting a chip off the shelf. I have tried a simple header and intake combination on an L98 engine. Running a quarter mile didn't make the difference. Took it to Lingenfelter, he sat in the car, loaded up equipment to datalog and that made the difference when I ran the quarter. Was using the stock chip, stock chip with programing and LPE chip. First 2 had no gain or better running and the 3rd was different. So long ago I can't remember what the numbers were anymore but there was a significant difference.
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
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  #28  
Old 05-11-2015, 01:51 PM
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Agreed. On a dyno is way better.

Ive come to that point recently car shopping. Why go middle of the road? If i cant go all out, ill take the minimum until i can.

But my life has a lot of change going on...
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  #29  
Old 05-11-2015, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
Agreed. On a dyno is way better.

Ive come to that point recently car shopping. Why go middle of the road? If i cant go all out, ill take the minimum until i can.

But my life has a lot of change going on...
I have tried that route too. Most times I am disappointed and have to go all the way the second time around. I I am lucky, the first time around don't break something
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2015, 02:22 PM
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The versa is headed back to the dealership tomorrow for warranty repairs

Third time is the charm. Lol.
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