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  #31  
Old 12-18-2015, 09:55 AM
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“The Milwaukee had been aiming for a delivery date in August, but that's been delayed at least a month by a shipyard accident that took place in late May in the midst of builder's sea trials — a series of underway periods where the shipyard checks out the ship before the Navy runs acceptance trials. …

The accident took place late one evening as the ship was pierside in Marinette, trying to get ready to head back out in the morning.

‘We were basically looking at cleaning up a lube oil system,’ North [Joe North, Lockheed's vice president of Littoral Ships and Systems] explained. ‘We had an inadvertent start of the turbine that went to the gear that spun the starboard shaft in the machinery plant between the splitter gear and the forward gear.’ The shaft should have been decoupled so the turbine wouldn't turn it. ‘So with no lube oil there, that is not the way you want to run it. It was a very, very short time frame, less than a minute.’

But it was long enough to damage the splitter gear, shaft bearings and other parts.

‘We were actually pretty fortunate there wasn't a whole lot of damage in there,’ North said. ‘There were a lot of parts that might have been scored or something or marked. We had them remachined, brought back in, put the gear back together.’

Repairs have been completed, he said, and crews were putting all the pieces back together to resume sea trials.

While the investigation is still being completed, North acknowledged the accident was the shipyard's fault.

‘It was a procedural error, human error,’ he said.

The Navy is right in the middle of overseeing the repair work.

‘We are pleased on the Navy side with the work we are seeing and the progress that is being made,’ Rear Adm. Brian Antonio, program executive officer for the LCS, said July 17 at the shipyard. ‘I actually went down into the space and things are being put back together again. The shipyard is doing the welding and the testing required to put the ship back to where it was prior to the casualty.’ “

Navy Matters: LCS Milwaukee Breakdown Originated During Construction?
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  #32  
Old 12-18-2015, 10:23 AM
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SWAG principle on my part.
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  #33  
Old 12-18-2015, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
“The Milwaukee had been aiming for a delivery date in August, but that's been delayed at least a month by a shipyard accident that took place in late May in the midst of builder's sea trials — a series of underway periods where the shipyard checks out the ship before the Navy runs acceptance trials. …

"The accident took place late one evening as the ship was pierside in Marinette, trying to get ready to head back out in the morning.

‘We were basically looking at cleaning up a lube oil system,’ North [Joe North, Lockheed's vice president of Littoral Ships and Systems] explained. ‘We had an inadvertent start of the turbine that went to the gear that spun the starboard shaft in the machinery plant between the splitter gear and the forward gear.’ The shaft should have been decoupled so the turbine wouldn't turn it. ‘So with no lube oil there, that is not the way you want to run it. It was a very, very short time frame, less than a minute.’

But it was long enough to damage the splitter gear, shaft bearings and other parts.

‘We were actually pretty fortunate there wasn't a whole lot of damage in there,’ North said. ‘There were a lot of parts that might have been scored or something or marked. We had them remachined, brought back in, put the gear back together.’

Repairs have been completed, he said, and crews were putting all the pieces back together to resume sea trials.

While the investigation is still being completed, North acknowledged the accident was the shipyard's fault.

‘It was a procedural error, human error,’ he said.

The Navy is right in the middle of overseeing the repair work.

‘We are pleased on the Navy side with the work we are seeing and the progress that is being made,’ Rear Adm. Brian Antonio, program executive officer for the LCS, said July 17 at the shipyard. ‘I actually went down into the space and things are being put back together again. The shipyard is doing the welding and the testing required to put the ship back to where it was prior to the casualty.’ “

Navy Matters: LCS Milwaukee Breakdown Originated During Construction?
Interesting article. Thanks. Some of the author's opinions as well as other comments are also interesting.

"So, we have a construction incident in which the splitter gear and other equipment was damaged by being run without lube oil. The operation of the gears (metal on metal) undoubtedly produced metal filings in the splitter/combining gear assemblies. It seems quite likely that the current breakdown due to metal filings in the splitter/combining gear assemblies originated from the earlier construction incident. It appears that the earlier construction incident produced metal filings that were not cleaned out from the splitter/combining gear system and those filings eventually accumulated in the splitter/combining gear lube oil system, clogging the filters, and shutting the system down"

If true, this raises a lot of questions. Why wasn’t the earlier incident properly repaired? Any engineer would have known there would be metal filings present in the system after the incident. Why weren’t they cleaned out?

Knowing that there had been an earlier incident, why didn’t the Navy insist on much closer inspection of the lube oil systems? The filings were there the whole time and would have been readily evident on closer inspection.




Rear Adm. Antonio went into the engine space. Perhaps he should have sent an engineer into the space instead of conducting a public relations exercise that accomplished nothing. What was he going to see? Nothing.

(hmmmmm.......)

The Freedom class has a history of engineering/propulsion system breakdowns including lube oil system issues. Why wasn’t particular attention paid to the Milwaukee’s system in light of the general class history of problems and the specific construction incident?

Let me be quite clear about this report. This is my speculation and the link between the construction incident and the recent breakdown is not confirmed. It is based only on a logical assessment of the public information. However, if the two incidents are not related, the co-incidence is astounding.


"ComNavOps" I Love it!!
Sounds Like: ComNavAirLant or ComFairMed, real billets in my day.

How on earth could the turbine(s) be started with the drive/propulsion system engaged? Me thinks human error or not following procedures led to this. Who is this Admiral he refers to?
I would be surprised if the turbine & gears had a common lube oil system. The turbines may have shared the same system, for cooling simplification.
Seems like the shavings clogged the gear oil filters and the loss of oil pressure (?) caused an automatic shutdown?
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  #34  
Old 12-18-2015, 04:12 PM
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My Dad as XO of ComPhibLant.

It would be interesting to know what path the lube oil follows. Does it go to a common sump? No filters?

When I was Oil King I sometimes ran centrifuge tests of lube oil looking for condensate (we were a steamship), fractionation and particulates.
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  #35  
Old 12-19-2015, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
My Dad as XO of ComPhibLant.

It would be interesting to know what path the lube oil follows. Does it go to a common sump? No filters?

When I was Oil King I sometimes ran centrifuge tests of lube oil looking for condensate (we were a steamship), fractionation and particulates.
Come to think of it, one marine engine room I worked in (Fairbanks Morse O/P diesels w/reduction gears) had separate lube oil systems and coolers. Redundancy. Sea water pumped though the cooler shell & oil through the tubes & back to the engine block. The coolers sat between the engines above the deck plates.

The main engines and the gears used different oil for obvious reasons. One wonders if turbine hydro propulsion systems do the same?

The steam plant I worked with had a 100% loss lube oil system. Direct drive. No gears to worry about.
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  #36  
Old 01-26-2016, 06:21 PM
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You've probably read that the USS Fort Worth, LCS-3, has broken down in Singapore and is idled indefinitely pending repairs. The breakdown was due to operating the combining gear assembly without lube oil. Does this sound familiar?

You may say it sounds familiar because that's exactly what happened to the Milwaukee, LCS-5, during construction, which caused delays and repairs.

You may say it sounds familiar because that's what happened to the Milwaukee, LCS-5, when it finally sailed after delivery and broke down due to metallic debris in the combining gear and lube oil systems. The ship has been idled and will remain so for weeks to come, yet, as repairs continue.

You may say it sounds familiar because that's what happened to the USS Freedom, LCS-1, on multiple occasions during its workups and Singapore PR tour when lube oil system problems (among many other problems) occurred.

You may think you see a pattern.

The Navy assures us that there is no systemic problem with the combining gear/lube oil systems.

You may think that the LCS-1, LSC-3, and LCS-5 all suffering combining gear/lube oil system failures constitutes a pattern and a systemic problem.

The Navy assures us that there is no systemic problem with the combining gear/lube oil systems.

You may think that the fact that every Freedom variant LCS that has put to sea has suffered a crippling combining gear/lube oil system failure very, very early in their service life constitutes a systemic problem.

The Navy assures us that there is no systemic problem with the combining gear/lube oil systems.

You may think that four or more catastrophic combining gear/lube oil system failures among three ships constitutes a pattern and a systemic problem.

The Navy assures us that there is no systemic problem with the combining gear/lube oil systems.

No need for concern. All is well. The Navy assures us. You're mistaken if you think you see a pattern.

Anyway, you'll have to excuse me, now. I'm going to start a lube oil system repair company and cash in on what is clearly not a pattern.

Navy Matters: LCS Lube Oil
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  #37  
Old 01-26-2016, 11:06 PM
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Initial indications are that the gear damage in Singapore “appears to be caused by a failure to follow established procedures during maintenance,” according to the memo. “During startup of the main propulsion diesel engines, lube oil was not supplied to the ship’s combining gears.” *

The episode in Singapore also may call into question the Navy’s maintenance plan for the ship, which is designed to have a minimal crew of about 50, compared with a crew of 200 on Navy frigates.

The Littoral Combat Ship, intended for operations in shallow coastal waters, will face a new round of criticism when the Pentagon operational test office publishes its next annual report later this month. In past assessments, the office has cited doubts about the ship’s reliability and vulnerability.
Navy Littoral Ship Sidelined in Singapore After Gear Damage - Bloomberg Business


Seems to me that would be the first thing you would learn at A school. Always, Always lubricate the gears before you do anything else!!!. That's what we always did.
With crew of 50, I wonder how many work in the engine room. Also, did the machinery have bridge controls for engine startup and operation?

What does "during maintenance" mean? An oil change?
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  #38  
Old 01-27-2016, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
You've probably read that the USS Fort Worth, LCS-3, has broken down in Singapore and is idled indefinitely pending repairs. The breakdown was due to operating the combining gear assembly without lube oil. Does this sound familiar?

You may say it sounds familiar because that's exactly what happened to the Milwaukee, LCS-5, during construction, which caused delays and repairs.

You may say it sounds familiar because that's what happened to the Milwaukee, LCS-5, when it finally sailed after delivery and broke down due to metallic debris in the combining gear and lube oil systems. The ship has been idled and will remain so for weeks to come, yet, as repairs continue.

You may say it sounds familiar because that's what happened to the USS Freedom, LCS-1, on multiple occasions during its workups and Singapore PR tour when lube oil system problems (among many other problems) occurred.

You may think you see a pattern.

The Navy assures us that there is no systemic problem with the combining gear/lube oil systems.

You may think that the LCS-1, LSC-3, and LCS-5 all suffering combining gear/lube oil system failures constitutes a pattern and a systemic problem.

The Navy assures us that there is no systemic problem with the combining gear/lube oil systems.

You may think that the fact that every Freedom variant LCS that has put to sea has suffered a crippling combining gear/lube oil system failure very, very early in their service life constitutes a systemic problem.

The Navy assures us that there is no systemic problem with the combining gear/lube oil systems.

You may think that four or more catastrophic combining gear/lube oil system failures among three ships constitutes a pattern and a systemic problem.

The Navy assures us that there is no systemic problem with the combining gear/lube oil systems.

No need for concern. All is well. The Navy assures us. You're mistaken if you think you see a pattern.

Anyway, you'll have to excuse me, now. I'm going to start a lube oil system repair company and cash in on what is clearly not a pattern.

Navy Matters: LCS Lube Oil
You may say this post sounds internally repetitive
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  #39  
Old 01-27-2016, 07:03 PM
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"Engine start before lube" ... How in the hell......
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  #40  
Old 08-07-2017, 08:00 PM
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Found this today:

USS Zumwalt
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  #41  
Old 08-07-2017, 10:01 PM
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Crashes on my phone. Have to look on computer.
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  #42  
Old 08-07-2017, 10:24 PM
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First look at the article and I'm thinking NCC1701. Then I'm thinking at least it's running Linux not Windows. But then I'm thinking just one hit to this thing in battle and it's probably a dead duck. It's not really a destroyer. The name has almost no meaning these days. Might as well call it a frigate or a cruiser. I just have to wonder how much of the things precious stealth construction will be compromised in a heavy sea. Balsa wood and carbon fibre composites really? Another staggeringly expensive US weapon system that puts me in mind of Tiger tanks...

- Peter.
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  #43  
Old 08-07-2017, 10:57 PM
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It was worth doing as an experiment at maybe, 1/20th scale. A full sized vessel as an experiment is most useful if kept, you know, ..... secret. Like the F-35. Don't reveal until necessary. Then use it like you can lose it.

If it's too expensive to risk for the amount of force it can project then it should not be built.
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  #44  
Old 08-08-2017, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
Found this today:

USS Zumwalt
Interesting, though should have been named the USS Al Gore, uses enough electricity to power 6,000 homes. No disrespect meant to Zumwalt, or her crew members.

Last edited by sloride; 08-08-2017 at 10:56 AM.
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