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  #16  
Old 03-29-2016, 12:34 PM
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Mussolini's political affiliation was socialist before he embraced fascism and became the international leader of the movement in the 1920s. But the concept also attracted people on the right, most notably Gen. Francisco Franco, whose ostensible goal was to re-establish the monarchy in Spain (and meanwhile appointing himself regent for life). Franco also got strong support from the Catholic Church, a very conservative institution in Spain.
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  #17  
Old 03-29-2016, 01:09 PM
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And the whole of Canada, fascist?
Depends who's paying the medical bills doesn't it? Are private insurors paying like they are here or is Canada's system more purely single (gov't) payer?
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  #18  
Old 03-29-2016, 01:17 PM
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This thread motivated me to read up a little on fascist movements in Latin America. A lot of the fascist politics there were based on corporatism, which the Catholic Church embraced in the 19th century as an alternative to Marxism and other radical movements. Fascism actually seems to have gained the most traction in Catholic countries, and even in Germany arose out of Catholic Bavaria.

Wikipedia, I found, has an interesting summary of corporatism as it related to fascism:

Quote:
Fascism's theory of economic corporatism involved management of sectors of the economy by government or privately controlled organizations (corporations). Each trade union or employer corporation would, theoretically, represent its professional concerns, especially by negotiation of labour contracts and the like. This method, it was theorized, could result in harmony amongst social classes.[32] Authors have noted, however, that de facto economic corporatism was also used to reduce opposition and reward political loyalty.[33]
Note the difference between the theory of the movement and the actual operation of the fascist states. In Europe, Fascism was quickly corrupted into totalitarianism, just as communism was in Russia. In Argentina, Peronism was authoritarian but enjoyed a great deal of success at the polls for decades. Again, from Wikipedia:
Quote:
Perón maintained the institutions of democratic rule, but subverted freedoms through such actions as nationalizing the broadcasting system, centralizing the unions under his control, and monopolizing the supply of newspaper print. At times, Perón also resorted to tactics such as illegally imprisoning opposition politicians and journalists, including Radical Civic Union leader Ricardo Balbin, and shutting down opposition papers, such as La Prensa.
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  #19  
Old 03-29-2016, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Here's what Sowell says about leftists, fascists and Dubois:

"Back in the 1920s, however, when fascism was a new political development, it was widely -- and correctly -- regarded as being on the political left. Jonah Goldberg's great book "Liberal Fascism" cites overwhelming evidence of the fascists' consistent pursuit of the goals of the left, and of the left's embrace of the fascists as one of their own during the 1920s.

Mussolini, the originator of fascism, was lionized by the left, both in Europe and in America, during the 1920s. Even Hitler, who adopted fascist ideas in the 1920s, was seen by some, including W.E.B. Du Bois, as a man of the left. "

I see no evidence to support that claim. If you think he's correct and that fascism is a leftist movement, let's see some evidence to support it.
OK, so take out the WE Du Bois reference. The statement is still true.
The argument hinges on the definitions used.
Is the political spectrum a flat, straight line, or is it a circle with totalitarian at one side, and anarchy on the other. Where do you find the greatest personal freedom, and where do you find the greatest government control? Having freedoms restricted by a leftist regime is no more comforting than having freedoms restricted by a regime of the right.
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  #20  
Old 03-29-2016, 02:16 PM
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So the Bill passed by the democrats--with NO repub participation was actually forced on the President by the Insurance industry.

Man, we need to talk--I have deeds to a dozen bridges for you to buy!
My point was there is no actual telling how powerful some industries may be today. Obama's original intent was not what transpired I think.

For example having insurance companies fundamentally make a draft of a new act is going to favor who? Basically just asking an industry to change some of the most glaring issues.

They would do as little as possible to damage their income base. At the same time I hope the changes helped some people.
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  #21  
Old 03-29-2016, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
OK, so take out the WE Du Bois reference. The statement is still true.
The argument hinges on the definitions used.
Is the political spectrum a flat, straight line, or is it a circle with totalitarian at one side, and anarchy on the other. Where do you find the greatest personal freedom, and where do you find the greatest government control? Having freedoms restricted by a leftist regime is no more comforting than having freedoms restricted by a regime of the right.
I'm disputing his claim that fascism was embraced by people on the left in the 1920's. His statement about Dubois was false. Who on the left embraced fascism? He didn't claim that communists have been totalitarian. He claimed leftists embraced fascism.
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  #22  
Old 03-29-2016, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by elchivito View Post
Depends who's paying the medical bills doesn't it? Are private insurors paying like they are here or is Canada's system more purely single (gov't) payer?
It's single payer but not on the federal level. Each province has its own system.
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  #23  
Old 03-30-2016, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
My point was there is no actual telling how powerful some industries may be today. Obama's original intent was not what transpired I think.

For example having insurance companies fundamentally make a draft of a new act is going to favor who? Basically just asking an industry to change some of the most glaring issues.

They would do as little as possible to damage their income base. At the same time I hope the changes helped some people.
If Obama's actual Bill was not what Obama actually desired, then why did he and all democrats support it? Was someone holding a gun to their collective heads? If so THAT is the person ( or group) actually running the US government.
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  #24  
Old 03-30-2016, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
I'm disputing his claim that fascism was embraced by people on the left in the 1920's. His statement about Dubois was false. Who on the left embraced fascism? He didn't claim that communists have been totalitarian. He claimed leftists embraced fascism.
My research time is a bit limited right now. I'll get back to you on this--but probably not right away.
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  #25  
Old 03-30-2016, 09:55 AM
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It's single payer but not on the federal level. Each province has its own system.
Are there private supplemental policies available for those who want/can afford them?
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  #26  
Old 03-30-2016, 10:37 AM
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For dental and international travel there are. I don't know about in-province care. I doubt there is a market for them as there is nothing that needs to be supplemented as far as i know. Barry will know more. I know what little I do mostly from our daughter going to university in Vancouver.
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  #27  
Old 03-30-2016, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by El Ted View Post
Generally speaking, there is dramatic misuse that comes with those terms. Mostly, those terms are being used with highly derogatory intentions.

Form an educational standpoint, esp here in the US, both terms are conceived as exclusively negative, even "evil". Such narrow-minded perception makes it practically impossible to have an objective take on either of those terminologies.

Ps, this topic is like checking a gas tank with a lit match ...
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  #28  
Old 03-30-2016, 08:02 PM
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Who is the new guy panZZer?
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  #29  
Old 03-30-2016, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS View Post
Who is the new guy panZZer?
Pretty sure this one isn't BillyBob.
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  #30  
Old 03-31-2016, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS View Post
Who is the new guy panZZer?
uh, YOU are still the -a new ... faceless spammbot , clogging up the opinion dump with endless / worthless Minuta threads.

who are YOU?




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Last edited by panZZer; 03-31-2016 at 04:19 PM.
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