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  #76  
Old 07-27-2017, 08:12 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Wonder what transgender services consists of?
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  #77  
Old 07-27-2017, 08:21 AM
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Transgender services is just any transition related medical treatment that doctors think is medically necessary. So, tests, surgery, so on. I found this on the Atlantic:

"The military has not historically covered gender-transition surgeries, though President Barack Obama did announce plans for it to begin doing so. That cost would be between $2.4 million and $8.4 million annually for transition-related costs, according to a RAND analysis commissioned by the Department of Defense. The group estimated there are between 1,320 and 6,630 active-duty transgender servicepeople currently. A study in The New England Journal of Medicine in 2015 put the number at 12,800 people and $4.2 million to $5.6 million, concluding that “doctors agree that such care is medically necessary.”

This would be a military health-care spending increase of 0.04 to 0.13 percent. Even in the most extreme case, it is one tenth of the annual $84 million that the military spends on medication for erectile dysfunction."


Seems like a stupid decision on Trump's part, although I saw a rumor that this was in exchange for support for his border wall or something.
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  #78  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:57 AM
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Golly, I missed six pages! I apologies for not reading them so if I repeat a point that has already been made please forgive me.

Most businesses and charaties Write a "mission statement", a sort of ethereal guide for why they do what they do. It's a useful tool for recruiting and training new hires.

In the military the mission is literally a matter to which you and your team dedicate your lives. ANY factor that impedes the mission threatens the lives of the team. Doesn't matter if you're an aircraft mechanic or a Delta Operator. Mission first.

Racial integration of the armed forces negatively impacted the armed forces for several decades.

I was in the USN at the tail end of adjustments to full racial integration and at the very beginning of gender integration. I saw young black sailors come in full of idealism due to the (written and legally enforced) military integration. They thought that at last, they'd get a fair shake. Legally they did. Socially they did not. They had an extra hurdle of proof to social integration: prove you're as competent as a white sailor. New white sailors did not have that social hurdle. It took its toll on the young black kids.

I expect they young women today and open gays face the same hurdle. Ironically, I'll bet the straight males, black and white, form the social barrier.

Young men and women who bond in a team under stress, whether in an office, in sports or the military have the extra burden of their hormones. Acting on hormones affects the good order and discipline. Think office romance. In the end they either marry or one leaves. Either way It creates turmoil. Turmoil in a military team impacts the mission. Mission turmoil affects survival. I expect it will take another decade or so before full gender integration becomes normal. The hormone thing will always be present. The military has to figure out how to deal with it.

As an example, during GW I, the majority of female sailors on one aircraft carrier became pregnant during deployment. Men don't get pregnant. Pregnancy during the last trimester affects women physically and emotionally. Most fathers become highly protective. These factors affect team readiness and good order and discipline. The mission could be impacted. The Navy is still trying to sort this out.

In my opinion gays are far less a problem. I knew several gay sailors who were barely closeted. Though they did get some teasing, most were competent and dependable. I never witnessed nor heard of romantic arrangements that affected good order and discipline. I suspect lesbians integrate better than straight women but have no knowledge of that.

Transgender? Damn, I don't know! I have never known a transgendered person. All I have is media portrayals and Chelsea Manning. They latter case does not inspire confidence but I recognize a single datum is not a trend.
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Last edited by Botnst; 07-27-2017 at 10:02 AM. Reason: I
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  #79  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzasaurus View Post
Did anybody else see this thing about how the US military spends more on Cialis and Viagra than on transgender services?

As in $22.8m (cialis) and $41.6m (viagra) v. $8.4m (transgender services) per year.
He hey now. Don't knock it till you've tried it. Boners are important.
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  #80  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:09 AM
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Oops, I do know one transgendered person who was a man and transitioned to secondary female characteristics. She is a program manager responsible for disbursing funding for scientific research. She is competent at her job and controlled funding on a couple of projects I either worked on directly or managed to some degree. She had initiated several complaints against her supervisor and colleagues and at least one lawsuit. Since she worked at headquarters and I was in a field office all I heard were vague rumors that she was overly sensitive and essentially looked for cause to be offended. I dunno.
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  #81  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
He hey now. Don't knock it till you've tried it. Boners are important.
Boners are pretty good, I will admit.

For whatever reason this convo reminded me of Sam Sylvia's video dating profile on Glow. "...y'know, someone who's fun. Not a hypocrite. Under 30. So, call me" ...



I guess I'm cool with the US military spending +$60 mil so dudes' cocks work great. ッ\_(ツ)_/ッ
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  #82  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:17 AM
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Times have changed! I never knew a sailor who needed viagra. Opposite.
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  #83  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzasaurus View Post
Did anybody else see this thing about how the US military spends more on Cialis and Viagra than on transgender services?

As in $22.8m (cialis) and $41.6m (viagra) v. $8.4m (transgender services) per year.
I'm sure that figure would change drastically if Uncle Sam would pick up the tab to have it lopped off.
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  #84  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Oops, I do know one transgendered person who was a man and transitioned to secondary female characteristics. She is a program manager responsible for disbursing funding for scientific research. She is competent at her job and controlled funding on a couple of projects I either worked on directly or managed to some degree. She had initiated several complaints against her supervisor and colleagues and at least one lawsuit. Since she worked at headquarters and I was in a field office all I heard were vague rumors that she was overly sensitive and essentially looked for cause to be offended. I dunno.
Goes to mental instability....
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  #85  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
Goes to mental instability....
Any medical data to back that up?
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  #86  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
Wonder what transgender services consists of?
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  #87  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:36 AM
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The 8.4 mil is the top of the projected cost range including covering "lopping it off".
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  #88  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
Any medical data to back that up?
You and I previously argued these points ad nauseum......

How you say....'google is your friend'
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  #89  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
Goes to mental instability....
Could be that.

Reasonable alternative explanation: She is a pioneer. Pioneers enter a hostile environment to seek a new life. She is fighting the environment to make it safe for herself and those who follow.
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  #90  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
You and I previously argued these points ad nauseum......

How you say....'google is your friend'
I know. There is none. Not a single shred of medical data to suggest that homosexuality or trans gender is a mental disorder.
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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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