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  #1  
Old 08-02-2017, 10:33 AM
waterboarding w/medmech
 
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Unhappy Health Rationing In England

"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" Margaret Thatcher....

"For those who extol the virtues of socialized medicine, and protest that it could never, never, ever lead to rationing, here’s a wake-up call from Great Britain.

Health care experts in Great Britain are warning that obese people and smokers will be routinely refused operations all across Great Britain in the very near future. The latest case in point comes from North Yorkshire, where patients having a BMI of 30 or higher and smokers will be refused routine surgery for over a year for non-life-threatening conditions."



http://www.dailywire.com/news/19204/health-rationing-england-obese-and-smokers-banned-hank-berrien#
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Last edited by Txjake; 08-02-2017 at 10:34 AM. Reason: put in source document reference
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2017, 11:03 AM
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertpearl/2017/02/02/why-healthcare-rationing-is-a-growing-reality-for-americans/#2945d56f2dba
Quote:
Insurance companies know that given all the time the process consumes, some physicians will choose the path of least resistance and just skip ordering a test or referral they might otherwise have pursued. In response, a coalition of 16 organizations—including the American Hospital Association, the American Medical Association and the American Academy of Family Physicians—banded together last week to try to force insurance companies to eliminate this practice, except in rare situations.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160720125525.htm

Quote:
More than half of US physicians included in a national survey have withheld certain medical interventions with small benefits from their patients because of the cost-implications these hold. These include deciding whether to prescribe certain drugs, ordering a scan to be performed or repeating a laboratory test. According to study leader Robert Sheeler of the Mayo Clinic in the US, such rationing behavior is more prevalent among physicians in solo practice, and less so among doctors with liberal leanings. The findings¹ of the survey are presented in the Journal of General Internal Medicine², published by Springer.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/health-care-rationing-is/

Quote:
Opponents of the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act warn that the new health care law will lead to rationing, or limits on medical services. But many observers point out that health care is already rationed in the United States. "We've done it for years," said Dr. Arthur Kellermann, professor of emergency medicine and associate dean for health policy at Emory University School of Medicine. "In this country, we mainly ration on the ability to pay." In fact, because the supply of doctors, hospitals, and treatments is never unlimited, medical care is rationed in every country, whether by the government, the private market, or some combination of the two.
Quote:

Americans have learned to fear European or Canadian types of rationing, but don't see that the United States practices both price rationing and other types of rationing in health care.
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  #3  
Old 08-02-2017, 12:07 PM
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Little difference in outright denial of care.

You smoke and eat pizza, you gonna die....
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  #4  
Old 08-02-2017, 12:56 PM
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Nice try, but...

Nearly everyone in the UK is on the NHS, and I mean EVERYONE. When someone proposes rationing of that type, the public outcry is huge, and the result is that the proposal dies or is so watered down as to be effectively dead since local NHS boards won't endorse it. The Yorkshire example is the exception, not the rule, and people can go outside of their home district for surgery. Whereas if one insurance company in the US does this, the response is "meh, but we can switch ... muh free market, herpa derp..." If it's done to Medicaid patients, it's "but they're poor ghetto trash, they deserve 5 lashes of the cat'o'nine and back to work..."

NHS chiefs abandon plan to axe cataract operations | London Evening Standard

Quote:
It also asked whether people with a body mass index of 30 or above — those regarded as obese — should be required to lose weight before surgery. After more than 750 responses, the CCG decided that smokers should merely be required to attend one smoking cessation clinic, while obese patients would not face restrictions on surgery but would be referred to weight management services."
Article goes on to talk about elective plastic surgery on the Vajayjay not being free.
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  #5  
Old 08-02-2017, 01:19 PM
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Healthcare in the US is already rationed by price.
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  #6  
Old 08-02-2017, 01:58 PM
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England ain't a socialist country.
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  #7  
Old 08-02-2017, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savas View Post
Healthcare in the US is already rationed by price.
And more broadly and severely.
If this is the best TX can do to indict single payer insurance, well....
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  #8  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savas View Post
Healthcare in the US is already rationed by price.
As it should be. Just like vehicles, whats on your dinner plate, etc. etc.
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  #9  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by sloride View Post
As it should be. Just like vehicles, whats on your dinner plate, etc. etc.
Health care is not a car, not a house, not anything like any other product. Health care is required to survive. If you need a new heart you cannot down grade to a cheaper version like a Yugo. You get a heart at the rate of about $1.4 million or you die. You cannot move in to a single wide with room mates for $150 a month. You cannot get Vonns Ice cream instead of Haggendas. If it's an emergency you cannot shop around for the best deal or wait till tues when a 1/2 price coupon comes out.

I hope there never comes a day when the idea of quality health care and economic status being linked together makes sense to me for that will mean I have surely lost my mind.
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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #10  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:15 AM
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The need for personal responsibility rears its head. Makes cmac sad.
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  #11  
Old 08-03-2017, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
Health care is not a car, not a house, not anything like any other product. Health care is required to survive. If you need a new heart you cannot down grade to a cheaper version like a Yugo. You get a heart at the rate of about $1.4 million or you die. You cannot move in to a single wide with room mates for $150 a month. You cannot get Vonns Ice cream instead of Haggendas. If it's an emergency you cannot shop around for the best deal or wait till tues when a 1/2 price coupon comes out.

I hope there never comes a day when the idea of quality health care and economic status being linked together makes sense to me for that will mean I have surely lost my mind.
That is why there should be a number of different policies available to choose from if they want the largest number of people covered at their cost and not the taxpayer.
A healthy twenty year old male might purchase a catastrophic care policy with a $50,000 deductible w/o maternity, no prescription plan if it were available. But NO guberment says no you can't.
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2017, 11:13 AM
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Single payer systems are more efficient, much much cheaper to administer , have more bargaining power and provides a single diversified population risk pool. The reason insurance companies try to segment the population into multiple risk groups is so they can profit, not to give you access to better care. Wake up.
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  #13  
Old 08-03-2017, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sloride View Post
That is why there should be a number of different policies available to choose from if they want the largest number of people covered at their cost and not the taxpayer.
A healthy twenty year old male might purchase a catastrophic care policy with a $50,000 deductible w/o maternity, no prescription plan if it were available. But NO guberment says no you can't.
Charlie Gards where probably in their 20's. Probabaly figured they would have a health bouncing boy like most other parents to be. I doubt they planned on 11 months of Hospital care. What would you have them do? Children, young adults have accidents. Some of them can be disabled for life. My brother in law got Hep C from a blood transsfusion when he was a child. Why put these people in massive debt because they were young and as you said "a healthy 20 yr old male".

You are telling people to play the lotto with their life. No one knows what their future holds. I have not had a car accident in over 30 yrs of driving yet I still carry it because who knows what tomorrow holds. Statistically kids will grow up health with out issue. Some people are going to roll snake eyes and not be so lucky.

I'd rather see a single payer where everyone contributes and everyone is covered and Charlie Gards parents do not hag to worry about going into massive debt trying to save their child's life.

Playing the lottery is dumb enough, doing it with your life is just utterly insane.
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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2017, 11:52 AM
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I am sure Charlie's parents just loved the idea of the government telling them that their child must die and that's that ... The real issue surrounding Charlie was the disaster known as the single payer system run by the government whereby you are forced to accept the standard of care created by the government versus the standard of care created by the private sector and capitalism. Those folks arguing in favor of a single payer system are the servants of mediocrity .... plus, the folks who feel entitled to something paid for by others.
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  #15  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greazzer View Post
I am sure Charlie's parents just loved the idea of the government telling them that their child must die and that's that ... The real issue surrounding Charlie was the disaster known as the single payer system run by the government whereby you are forced to accept the standard of care created by the government versus the standard of care created by the private sector and capitalism. Those folks arguing in favor of a single payer system are the servants of mediocrity .... plus, the folks who feel entitled to something paid for by others.
The government did no such thing. The doctors did. The child was brain dead, could not move, eat or breath on his own.

Not sure what reality you are living in but single payer is the only reason the child lived as long as he did. Insurance does not pay for experimental treatment. They sure as hell won't pay for treatment that only has a 10% chance of improvement. Charlie Gards parents do not have any financial responsibility for the hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in trying to save their sons life from a rare and TERMINAL disease because of single payer.

The only reason the government got involved is because the parents would not listen to the doctors. The government stepped in to protect Charlie. They did not kill him, they did not determine he had to die. The disease he had did that.
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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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