No matter how bad the stabs aimed at him he sticks to his point, even if its cut and paste. He sticks to his argument and doesn't resort to the intelligence card, which is often used by people who have little or nothing else to resort to.

I'm not giving you pass KV but I like to give credit where it's deserved.

I just wish you were a Republican.

Why thank you, Medmech, I take back everything I ever said about you, even the flag draped Patton wannabee, even tho I really liked that one.

You know what would be really nice, if maybe we can start conceding some of the points in this argument. We seem to be arguing about some things that are becoming self evident. For example, I'll concede that Michela Moore blew it on the Saudi Aircraft flight thing, because the facts no longer support it, and that Mr. Wilson may have been lying. In fact. the most reasonable explanation I now have for Wilson is that elements in the CIA engineered the whole thing to blow the lid off the WMD thing, which if true, worked in spades. Because of Wilson, a press feeding frenzy got unleashed.

I came to those conclusions inspite of my bias, because thats were the facts lead. It is a tough thing to do.

Take a turn. Its one thing to have an opinion, but reasonable men, when shown facts, do better when they admit the bad and try to sort things out from there. We need to move beyond some these arguments and start admitting the areas where some things have become self-evident.

Instead of arguing, why don't we list things that we think the other side or ourselves should simply admit now looks true, without getting into knifefights. there's my two.

Why thank you, Medmech, I take back everything I ever said about you, even the flag draped Patton wannabee, even tho I really liked that one.
shoot kirk don't take that back it the nicest thing you've ever said to me

I've stated several times on the forum that despite Kerry's political connections that no matter how well he served he went he served and that’s all I really care about.

There are many men and women who didn't serve or did serve but weren't in combat that would have been heroic, I sincerely believe that most of us have a hero inside waiting to get out.

Although Dubbya's service was certainty not as valorous as Kerry’s, he still stepped up to the plate, it may not be what I would have done but he wasn't in Canada.

If military service is the issue here I'd tip the awards scale on both of them combined, so elect me please I need a job. KV will be my first internet propaganda appointee.

I'm not too damn thrilled about the war either, with the disbanding of the Iraqi army to be specific I think if we kept the Army intact we would have been gone months ago with much less casualties.

Cheney Blames Democrats for Gas Prices

I think thats a stretch.

I think the one thing we should drop from this discussion is the entire Kerry-Bush service thing. For those of us on this board over what? 45? it opens gaping and hateful wounds. I mentioned I was 9 yrs old when the war started, and 19 when it ended - it was the backdrop for the most formative and difficult time in many of our lives here. Four doors or so down lived my friend Alan, whose father died over the skys of Vietnam. I got to come home to a father every night. He got to come home to a big picture on the mantle. I don't think I ever saw his mother smile. He ended up having a troubled life. He was the close friend you grow up with who your mom won't let you hang around with when we got older. I had another friend came home addicted to heroin. A friend goes away, in a grand uniform, the flags flying, and comes back a puking junkie. The last time I saw him, was in a city park with glue burns all over his face, even heroin out of his reach, 30 years ago. I watched him lose everything in the world that was near and dear to him - his wife and kids who waited for him, his parents, the job they held open for him, the respect of people who treated him as a returning hero, everything, while he lived out some personal nightmare. We all paid an enormous price and we all came out of that war with emotional scars of varying depth, and I cannot fault anyone for the path they chose if they themselves thought they were doing the right thing - the world was even more morally confused then than it is now, by 10 fold. It was a world were a clear view of right and wrong simply disappeared for a while. I wish the people who are posting that stuff would drop it and give all of us who suffered thru that time a break. I feel like I need a shower whenever I post to that thread. People on this board who did not experience that time have no idea what it is like to live thru a war with close to 60,000 casualties. It ripped into our lives like some kind of buzzsaw. Those are just two stories, I've got my share of more, and they are just heartbreak. Let it rest.

OK, I have to beat ted to the group hug.

I think we've covered the military issue.

I must add for a last retort that almost a year ago on this forum I said about Kerry "He went, he served end of story".

This whole military thing has been really blown out of proportion, I think someone that thinks a General would be a good Prez definitely never knew a General.


I think Ron Jeremy would be a great prez, a hard worker and a hard man and if you make him made.......unga bunga.

Wow. Glad to see the opposition accepted as part of the human race, and an American member of the human race, at that. I may have this wrong because I am still sorting out this subject, but, wouldn't you prefer "Libertarian" or do I have this all mixed up still? Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Clearly you haven't noticed that KV and I have the ability to slur the absolute worst insults but still PM each other and have a laugh or two, because we both know that it's mostly just rah rah rah my team is better than yours bs.

The Republican thing was an innuendo....get it.

Bump^

I posted this because I sincerely believed KV is man enough to admit a fault, were all human ya know!

I know the Bush admin, has screwed up on more levels than the World Trade Center but I'm more interested in acknowledgement of mistakes, rather than making the same mistake twice.

Hind sight in 34dd.

This board needs to be humanized the insults I've seen the last few months are absolutely terrible remember that the people are being attacked are real people with feelings, families and ideologies that were instilled mostly by their families and surroundings.

The biggest argument on this board that I've seen since 2001 was between Lebenz and I about Coyotes eating pet Cats and Lebenz led off with a 21 gun retort, which ultimately led to the moderation of open forum. I know that my statement was crass and was somewhat barbaric and being a pet lover myself I did change my methods because of Lebenz's retort.

On occasion I have get a wiff a cat piss on my deck due to a special forces trained cat but via this forum I learned that people actually loved the mangy things and Lebenz and I have communicate on an intelligent level.

Bottom line.....were human this may seem somewhat mushy but as difficult as life is why make more enemies?

Posted by MedMech: This board needs to be humanized the insults I've seen the last few months are absolutely terrible remember that the people are being attacked are real people with feelings, families and ideologies that were instilled mostly by their families and surroundings.

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Is this really your philosophy? My experience with you says otherwise.

Joe B.

That's the point you have no experience with me, I know that the forum members that know me and have met me and my family would tell a much different tale than your own.

Posted by MedMech: That's the point you have no experience with me, I know that the forum members that know me and have met me and my family would tell a much different tale than your own.

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And you do not know me, either--but it did not stop you from spreading malicious things about me. You do not know me, my family, my friends, or the work I did in my profession, but your concern for my humanity was zero.

Joe B.

I don't know what your looking for but, to be honest I don't think your capable of forming any type of friendship with anyone that has views other than yourself.

so please exlcude yourself from an otherwise inclusionary thread...

Posted by MedMech: I don't know what your looking for but, to be honest I don't think your capable of forming any type of friendship with anyone that has views other than yourself.

so please exlcude yourself from an otherwise inclusionary thread...

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You have no idea of what I am capable of. My point was a simple one: You are here declaring the need for a more humane treatment of forum members. I agree with that.

But I was pointing out that you do not follow this philosophy yourself, at least in my case. For whatever reason, you decided that you could unload on me with the most vile comments. I, too, have a family, have friends (lots with opinions other than my own), and I have feelings.

Joe B.

MedMech
The mental image conjured up by your " special forces trained cat" has provided me much mirth. ( I think I have one of those!)
Thanks,