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  #1  
Old 08-29-2004, 06:52 PM
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20 cent premium for premium

Can anybody really tell me what extra process, ingredients, and labor go into premium fuel that makes it cost an extra 20 cents over regular?
Glad I have my SD, but using the wife's car or the 420 is a pinch frosts me when I fill it up.

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  #2  
Old 08-29-2004, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybomb
Can anybody really tell me what extra process, ingredients, and labor go into premium fuel that makes it cost an extra 20 cents over regular?
Glad I have my SD, but using the wife's car or the 420 is a pinch frosts me when I fill it up.

Thanks
Scroll down to Articles and Resourses and start with the 4 part FAQ.

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  #3  
Old 08-29-2004, 09:29 PM
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20 cents per gallon? In Canada it works out to over 40 cents per gallon difference.
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  #4  
Old 08-29-2004, 10:47 PM
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A friend of mine who works at a refinery has told me something I might try. He says if you fill the tank with half high test and half regular, the octane boosters added to the hightest will react with the regular gas and boost it's octane as well. Its an interesting theory. I might test this one of these days on my Porsche 944, which drinks premium like the bankrupting rapacious whore that it is.
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Old 08-29-2004, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KirkVining
which drinks premium like the bankrupting rapacious whore that it is.
What a GREAT phrase! Only a Porsche owner would know! Is your 944 a turbo? They can be tres expensive to keep, second to the 911 turbo, but not by much. My wife refused to call my 911 a "car" instead using various forms of "money pit" or simple four letter words.
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Old 08-29-2004, 11:12 PM
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No, it has an after market Vortec supercharger on it my brother rigged up, running 4 lbs of boost. It's not real sophisticated, but it turned the car into a real animal. The Audi slant 4 loves compressed air, turbo or otherwise radicalizes those cars. It has the rare 5 speed manual so its a pretty nice setup all and all.

The problem any Porsche is that if anything breaks, it costs a thousand bucks to fix it. As a result I spend a lifetime scouring ebay and junkyards. Example: alternator went out. New alternator from Porsche, $750. Everything is like that - fuel pump, radiator, any part and the price is going to make you scream. And of course, a Porsche mechanic is a proud, proud, man. Thats why I bought a 83 280SL, so I could have a sports car I could actually afford to drive. Parts are expensive for it to, but nothing ever breaks.

I am really thinking of doing the Chevy 350 conversion to the Porsche that Rooster sells a kit for. It would be sacrilege but you add about 100 horse and the car keeps the Porsche 5 speed and the handling characteristics are about the same. The 944 is considered the best handling Porsche, althought they are no where near as fast as most of the 911 permutations. given my experience with the 944, I shudder to think what it costs to operate a 911. The cars beg you to push them hard, so you end up with a car that is driven hard all the time. Did your 911 use a lot of gas? Even pre-boost my 4 cyl got about 12 to the gallon.

Last edited by KirkVining; 08-29-2004 at 11:22 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-29-2004, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KirkVining
Did your 911 use a lot of gas?
Well, when it wasn't sitting on a hoist running up tune-up and repair bills of $3300 a shot, it did. Now, you could troll around town in fourth and try to stay out of the boost and you could get about 13L/100 km's (18USMPG), but driving gentle enough to get mileage like that meant losing drag races to kids on bicycles. More typical mileage was about 20L/100kms or 12USMPG.

$90 gas cap? Yup! Word to the wise 911 owner, don't leave yours on the pump. Sunroof broke open as rain began. $2200 power seat repair. Of course the seats always break when 1" from the steering wheel. Tire wear? Unreal. Brake parts make AMG brake bits seem cheap. The dry sump holds enough Mobil 1 that if it split open one day you'd have to call the Valdez clean-up folks. Nice to shell out more for oil than most people pay for a new set of tires for their econo-box.

Anything for a 911, aspro or turbo is also $1000 and up, pretty much regardless of where it bolts on. Both the four speed pre G50 and G50 five speed tranny cars are bullet proof, but clutches do wear. Each piece costs more than a whole clutch for pretty much everything else except Italian exotics.

But, I spent some time talking to 928 owners and found out that they have it BAD. Water pumps are practically changed with the oil, as are alternators and clutches. Manny-tranny cars are nightmares to own. The automatic was built by MB is bulletproof. The V-8 compartment is impossible and labour rates are unreal. Electrics are as bad as the 911, if not worse. Porsche used a Mass Airflow Sensor way back when on the V-8, and it's a veddy expensive item that wears constantly. The "Wise-Acre" rear end means good handling, but I understand that tire wear is atrocious.

The problem is that a 944, 944 Turbo, or 928's can be had for next to nothing. People buy them so that they can have a Porsche, and then can't keep them up. Timing belt changes on the 944's alone can cost an arm and a leg for a car driven on a regular basis. Even 944 tune up and brake bits are shockingly expensive.

I think I just alked myself out of another one.
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2004, 11:59 PM
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The 944 Turbos are still pretty pricey, as long as it is good condition and runs well, they still bring around 10k. Otherwise you can buy 944s out of the paper for 1k - 4k, and you can find blown junkers for a couple hundred bucks. The 928 is a different story. They are still pretty expensive cars, and there are some models that are rare collector items. A 928 GTS made in the 80s will set you back serious change. I do agree that you do get chances to pick them up for bargain prices from people of limited means who don't know what they are getting into. The only way to really own an older one is as a hobby car. If you like to tinker with them and do the ebay, Hemmings and junkyard thing, they can be fun. Definately not a daily driver once they get past about 8 years of age. One of the reasons I thinking of doing a Chevy thing is I have a $1,000 timing chain job coming up.

Last edited by KirkVining; 08-30-2004 at 12:07 AM.
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  #9  
Old 08-30-2004, 12:49 AM
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I'll have to disagree with you on the 928. I drove one as a daily driver for over 6 years and it never left me stranded. I still have that car after 13 years of ownership. I absolutely love that car and will get rid of my E55 before I sell the 928. The only negative thing I can possibly say about the 928 is that it uses a timing belt. I sure wish they would have used a chain like Mercedes. I never had any problems with mine but you do hear about one that breaks loose every now and then.

The suspension on the 928 is called the Weisach suspension. The GTS came out in 1992. Yep, if you could get one of those '80's model GTS, it would be worth a huge sum of money.

It's a shame that so many go into a state of disrepair because they can be very expensive to bring back from the brink. Like any car, you always want to buy the nicest example that you can afford from the start. The values have been going upwards lately but not at an astounding rate.

There is a huge following and a great parts network for the 928. You can easily modify the 928 to current supercar performance for not too much money. There are multiple vendors who sell supercharger kits and even a guy who does twin-turbo kits. The 928 engine responds very well to boost and stroking. I've seen 500+ RWHP supercharged 928's and 500+ RWHP naturally aspirated 928's too.

I had a Porsche master mechanic who once told me that if the 944 were never invented he couldn't afford to put his children through college and would probably be working on BMW's instead. I think the new Boxsters are also keeping him busy.
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  #10  
Old 08-30-2004, 01:39 AM
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I've never owned one so take it for what it's worth but...

on the 911's I've had a couple friends who have owned a few and the take is that they are some of the cheapest sports cars you can own. It sounds counterintuitive at first but your garden variety 911 has been in production for about thirty years and a lot of the parts interchange and there is a pretty good aftermarket. Like the M-B stay away from the dealership, and suck up to an indy and your OK. Makes sense to me.

Another friend has a 944, I don't think I've ever seen it actually run.

My former partner had a 928 and when he talks about it the stories are always told with the same tragic comedy tone as war stories "so we were totally surrounded and they threw a hand grenade in our fox hole" "so I had this 928....."
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  #11  
Old 08-30-2004, 09:41 AM
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I stand corrected on the GTS. "One made in the early 90s" is what I should have said, but the point I was making to blackmercedes is the same - the 928 cars are not cheap and some models are rare and very much in demand by collectors. The 924s and 944s, the 912s, the 914s can all be had for reasonable to down right cheap prices.

I was also referring to the 944's as ones that do not make good daily drivers after 8 years of use, not 928s, - I should have made that clearer. The 928s are very nice cars and are built a whole lot better, no doubt about it, and I am sure with care they last a lot longer. 944s are hign revving engines and the owners simply tend the beat the crap out of them.
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Old 08-30-2004, 10:11 AM
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Well, I can't speak to newer 928's, but our local PCA had a handful of 80-85-ish owners, and they could barely keep up with the demand for parts. The interior and other materials sure are better than 944's though.

Parts prices? I had to have two small fuel lines replaced. They looked like $50 bits to me. $600 EACH and FIVE hours of Porsche-rate labour to change. $1700 for two fuel lines. I just spent about the same on the C230 and the invoice is several pages with all the work I had done, not one line for parts and one line for labour.
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Old 08-30-2004, 10:15 AM
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One of my dream cars was to own a 911 until we worked on our first one. Could not believe the prices of parts and the service people we had to deal with were real jerks. On the positive side though, those cars are really built. They have at least twice as many spot welds holding them together as most cars, including Mercedes,,,, I mean those cars are strong.
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Old 08-30-2004, 10:34 AM
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My '80 928 was not a real maintenance problem. Parts were kind of expensive, but no more than a MB. But what does one personís story amount to. I only had mine for 12 years......
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Old 08-30-2004, 10:53 AM
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I know this has gone from Gas to Porsche, but has anyone tried that 1/2 regular, 1/2 premium fill up trick? I'm half Scot's so any chance to save $$'s is appreciated
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