I'm not sure the people on this board are typical of either Bush supporters or the left. After all, what percentage of Bush supporters or leftists drive Mercedes. I haven't seen a lot of support for W. on relligious grounds on this board, but a lot of his supporters like him precisely because of his religious beliefs. Many of the Bush supporters I know are Bible thumpers and believe in the literal truth of the Genesis story. The General who made the speeches praising Bush's foreign policy for waging war on the Satanic religion of Islam is speaking to a big segment of Bush's public.

For all of these people, the most existentially important moment in their lives was when they were 'born again'. Everything that has happened in their lives is measured against this moment when they were 'saved'. Their jobs, their family, their education all pale in comparison with this one moment. The fact that George W. had a similar experience bonds them with him in a way that transcends almost all other political connections. This one moment divides their own lives into Black and White so it is no surprise that the rest of the world is interpreted on the same model.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Well this observation may not fit in exactly with the thread but I find it interesting that an orchestrated campaign of HATRED has been going on for a very ,very long time against the current President.

HATRED, even more vicious and organized than any mass sentiment mustered against
those confused folks who'd like to see North Americans 100% DEAD,
irregardless of race, color or political backgroud.

This HATRED campaign has cultured a wide group of followers who find a common denominator amongst each other. Group HATE hug.
Passionate HATE, all the same.

I don't vote for the wolf in sheep's clothing.

so be it.

__________________
1979 300D 220 K miles
1995 C280 109 K miles
1992 Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe 57K miles SOLD
********************
1979 240D 140Kmiles (bought for parents) *SOLD.
SAN FRANCISCO/(*San Diego)
1989 300SE 148 K miles *SOLD

umm, OK *backs slowly out of the room*

Actually, I think this is fairly close to the point.
The point is LEADERSHIP. It is one thing to constantly follow the ever-changing poles, and do what "the people" seem to want. But "what the people want" is a constantly changing concept. After 9-11, the people wanted revenge, they wanted someone to pay. Then some newspaper runs a series about people w/o adequate healthcare, and the emotion of the moment changes and now the people want health care. Then an economic report highlights some unfairness in that area and "the people" want drastic reform . This is a populist approach, and the one seemingly ( since he hasn't articulated it, of Mr. Kerry.
On the otherhand, there is the approach of the President. After 9-11 he stated that we are in a war. That was a popular sentiment then. He still maintains that stance, but his critics want to downplay that--they want to focus on domeatic problems.
That seems to be the division, domestics issues, or the war on terrorism. One is responding to the populist will, the other is displying leadership. Which do you want? You may not agree with the specific actions taken by the President, but you must acknowledge he is displaying leadership. Determination, and strong-willed, if you like him, pig-headed and stupid if you don't.
Yes he "panders" to the religious right". Do the dems "pander" to the irreligious left? You bet they do. Whats the difference? They are politicians--what do you expect?

I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't see the division being between foreign policy and domestic issues. I see many other divisions being much more important. Of the many problems I have with Bush, the most immediate is that he has damaged our national security. Through a combination of lies and mistakes, Bush has squandered our credibility and has damaged our relationships with other countries who would like to work with us against the terrorist networks. Right now, that is my biggest problem with Bush, so I don't buy your "leadership versus polls" theory.

I do not doubt the sincerity of W's religious beliefs, but I don't see how his supporters can overlook his violations of the Sixth Commandment ("Thou shalt not kill") and the Ninth Commandment ("Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour").

I am a Christian. I see myself as neither a Republican or a Democrat. I cast my ballat for the campaign that most closely guards what I believe. In this instance it happens to be W. Being a Christian doesn't mean you perfect, and I don't think George is nor do I believe he thinks he is. I would not cast my vote for a person claiming to be a Christian that was for policies inconsistant with Christian morals.

That said there have been many elected official non-Christian who have done many great things for our country based on moral positions. I would equally cast my vote for these candidates. My loyalty is not to a political party but rather to God.

__________________
Brandon



2008 S550
1957 Dodge D100
1967 VW Microbus 21 Window
2001 Suburban
2004 Beach cruiser bicycle
-----------------GO DUKE!-----------------

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry 1776

I'm going a little O.T. here, but......

Oh, how you misunderstand that commandment. But I won't go there here.

I guess I'm of that "religous right" that keeps getting slung around here. But the way you guys lump all of as some kind of fanatical "Bible thumpers" makes me shudder. Believe it or not, we don't all fit into the likes of "Fallwell" types. I don't run around saying "praise the Lord". I don't have a fish sticker on the back of my car. I wish there was some way of the rest of you to see there are different shades of "religous" as with anything else.
Anyway, back to the subject at hand. I think Botnst said it about as well as I could:
"I care about two things:

Are a candidates policies consistent with mine?

On international stage, completely. I think he has led teh nation and world admirably and I look for him to continue doing it. On this score alone I am relieved that Algore was not selected by the Supremes to be CinC.

On the domestic side--not hardly. If we didn't have a bunch of freaking wacko murderous relgious zealots bent on killing Americans around teh world, whose goal is to stifle freedom and bring their vision of Islamic law to world rule, I would consider domestic issues more important. Right now, I don't care about deficits, I don't care about education, I don't care about environment or trade. I care about killin gthose mad ba$tards and destroying any country anywhere that offers safe harbor or support.

Aside from that, I could support a Libertarian."

Never thought I'd agree with that liberatarian part until the last year or so. For me, the "right" is getting too right, and the "left" is getting too left.

__________________
past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)

As the holder of the absolute truth, don't you have a duty to share? My comment referred as much to W's tenure as Governor as to his years as C in C.

I don't believe that anyone is necessarily lumping people together. I see a distinct difference between being 'religious' and the 'religious right' and to me that difference is this. The religious right is not content to simply bask in the light which they've discovered -- they feel compelled to impose their values and beliefs on others. They assume that their truth is the truth and that all other truths are false. Assimilate thy brother is not quite the same as love thy brother... You have clearly discovered personal truths which you hold dear and which have improved the quality of your life. I don't see you running around hitting folks over the head with that. I respect that -- I don't respect folks looking down their nose telling everyone else they're wrong.

"Any economist can tell you that W stepped into office with the economy going down hill."

Yeah, you forgot to add that Bush Sr created the foundation for the 90s, the best time we ever lived in, and Clinton just rode his wave, LOL.

Give me a f'in break man. Clinton will go down in history as one of the top 3 presidents of the 20th C. when the books are written in 50 years. By the way drbrandini,

GO HEELS!

As for religion, if you are voting for Bush because God told you so, I guess you should move to Heaven now with the rest of the Republicans, because GW is certainly not going to make your life easier on earth. As long as we fight people in the middle east with conventional warfare, their hatred for us will grow. We are REINFORCING their hatred for Westerners. You can'y win a war that you perpetuate, especially when the real warriors are suicide bombers and men dressed as pregnant women. Watched any video of Israeli violence lately? That's exactly what we are setting ourselves up for.

Careful, the foam from your mouth might stick up your keyboard.

Poor W! Poor persecuted Republicans!

Now ... this campaign of hatred is completely unprecedented in American politics, and it is totally unlike what happened to Bill Clinton just a couple of years ago. THAT wasn't a campaign of hate -- just "intense dislike, to the point of impeachment." It involved books, movies, videos, wild rhetoric, lawsuits, websites ... but was TOTALLY dissimilar. Right!

That campaign was also insignificant. After all, the nation's political business essentially stopped for a year or two while that campaign wore its way to its ultimate conclusion. But that was minor. It wasn't like those politicians had anything important to do.

And another thing, THAT multi-tiered campaign was better funded, better organized and more effective!

Overall, Bush's supporters need to stop whining and feeling self pity about how awful and "hateful" their opponents are, given all this recent history. The Democrats are just returning the favors that have been done to their politicians and to their viewpoints in spades (i.e., being accused of "treason" by gonzo polemicists like Anne Coulter). If you do aggressive stuff like that, you should not expect your target to just go off and sit in a corner: they are going to get angry, no matter how many years it takes in the case of liberals, and they are going to want serious revenge.

Viciousness begets viciousness, even if you think you are righteous.

Cheers!

Bokonon

I'm not a fan of Bush or Kerry. I always thought the election process is a bit of theater and nothing else. Folks who want more of the same vote the incumbent. Folks who want a change vote for the other guy. But nothing ever changes.

This is more a modern tragedy as at the end of the day, who ever is voted into office promptly becomes a feeding ground for what are typically the same lobbyists with typically the same big $$ interests. It is tantamount to a herd of cows choosing who will lead them to the slaughter house. Except with people it is all about stealing $$ from them, with the full force of law backing the theives

__________________
...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

And I thought my attitude about the election was depressing..... Actually, I take exception to just one statement: "But nothing ever changes". Something did change with this administration -- I wish it hadn't.