Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-11-2004, 08:23 PM
Zeitgeist's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 2,304
"Bipartisan" call for a recount...pssst, it's not who you think.

Green & Libertarian Presidential Candidates to Demand Ohio Recount


WASHINGTON -- November 11 -- David Cobb and Michael Badnarik, the 2004 presidential candidates for the Green and Libertarian parties, today announced their intentions to file a formal demand for a recount of the presidential ballots cast in Ohio.

“Due to widespread reports of irregularities in the Ohio voting process, we are compelled to demand a recount of the Ohio presidential vote. Voting is the heart of the democratic process in which we as a nation put our faith. When people stand in line for hours to exercise their right to vote, they need to know that all votes will be counted fairly and accurately. We must protect the rights of the people of Ohio, as well as all Americans, and stand up for the right to vote and the right for people’s votes to be counted. The integrity of the democratic process is at stake,” the two candidates said in a joint statement.

The candidates also demanded that Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, a Republican who chaired the Ohio Bush campaign, recuse himself from the recount process.

The Ohio presidential election was marred by numerous press and independent reports of voter intimidation, mis-marked and discarded ballots, problems with electronic voting machines and the targeted disenfranchisement of African American voters. A number of citizens’ groups and voting rights organizations are holding hearings this Saturday in Columbus, Ohio to investigate voting irregularities and voter suppression in the Ohio 2004 general election. The hearings will be held from 1-4 p.m. at the New Faith Baptist Church, 955 Oak Street. Voters, poll workers, journalists and voting experts are invited to testify. A second hearing will be held on Monday at a location TBA, from 6-9 p.m.

The Cobb and Badnarik campaigns are in the process of raising the required fee, estimated at $110,000, for filing for a complete recount. The campaigns are accepting contributions through their websites. The Cobb-LaMarche website is http://www.votecobb.org. The Badnarik-Campagna contribution page is https://badnarik.org/.

The Cobb and Badnarik campaigns have displayed a level of cooperation and civility rarely found in electoral politics. The campaigns jointly participated in and/or sponsored a series of independent debates. Cobb and Badnarik were also simultaneously arrested in St. Louis protesting their exclusion from the restricted, two-party corporate-sponsored debates.

To see an investigative report by Greg Palast, author of The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, which asserts that the Ohio vote was improperly decided, see http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php.

For an article detailing a dozen ways in which the Ohio vote was potentially manipulated, see http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/810.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-11-2004, 08:28 PM
GermanStar's Avatar
Annelid wrangler
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 4,932
Perhaps they could solicit donations from the Amish.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-11-2004, 08:36 PM
KirkVining's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,303
This whole vote fraud thing is starting to snowball. I think it is a wasted effort, but this has become an article of religion on the Democratic forums. They have raised millions for recount efforts, and are backing a Nader in another big effort in New Hampshire and North Carolina. You can't rely blame them. The statistical anomalies are just to great to be explained by margin of error, something definately went wrong somewhere. The big problem is these trackless voting machines have shaken peoples faith in democracy. We need to get rid of those freaking things.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-11-2004, 09:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 18,355
NPR yesterday had a piece on those odd Florida numbers that Kirk posted. They repeated the explanation that the fact that Republican votes far exceeded the number of registered Republicans is explained by a trend for democrats to vote republican in the south. But again, they showed no previous numbers from prior elections to verify the truth of this claim. Those Florida numbers still look very odd to me.
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-11-2004, 10:40 PM
KirkVining's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,303
What is really odd is that all of the polls, pre election polls, post election exit polls, internal campaign polls, all show a consistent spread on only one side of the margin of error - which the rules of statistics say must have a "special cause". If the errors were random, a plus on one side of the median for Kerry, a minus in the other side of Bush, they would be the result of "common cause" - randomness that is an expected behavior in such large data sets. It is such a fundemental rule - its basic to all manufacturing quality control - a QC guy who gets a chart like that shuts down the production line and checks for something that is wrong. I think we owe it to the electoral system to do the same thing, figure out what is. One guy says he can find a statistical correlation in the optical scanning machines that he traces to the computers they feed into that all use the same software program. that sounds pretty suspicious, but there is so much jump-to-conclusion going on with the Dems, who knows if the guy is even right. But I think an investigation is warranted on the special cause aspect alone, and I believe the Nader guys are going to use that as one their prime legal arguments. Personally, I have my own theory - the special cause was Ossama Bin Laden. I think his appearance gave a late push to Bush. But that would only explain the pre-election poll errors.

Last edited by KirkVining; 11-11-2004 at 10:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-12-2004, 12:00 PM
sfloriII's Avatar
Still pedaling...
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by KirkVining
The big problem is these trackless voting machines have shaken peoples faith in democracy. We need to get rid of those freaking things.

Yeah, I hate the darn things. Something inside me just doesn't trust an electronic machine to tally things up without the possiblity of fraud.

Fraud can happen anywhere, but the computer is way too vulnerable.
__________________

Current:
2014 VW Tiguan SEL 4Motion 43,000 miles.

2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport (wife's).

Past:
2006 Jetta TDI 135,970 miles. Sold Nov. '13.
1995 E-320 Special Edition. 220,200 miles. Sold Sept. '07.
1987 190-E 16 valve. 153,000 miles. Sold Feb. '06.
1980 300-D 225,000 miles. Donated to the National Kidney Foundation.
1980 240-D manual, 297,500 miles. Totaled by inattentive driver.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-12-2004, 12:06 PM
boneheaddoctor's Avatar
Senior Benz fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hells half acre (Great Falls, Virginia)
Posts: 16,007
The Democrats lost......no amount of recounts is going to change that. As much as I hate Kerry I have to respect him for accepting his loss so gracefully.

Anyone who thinks Kerry won is seriously dilusional and needs to immediately seek psyciatric help.
__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-12-2004, 12:09 PM
sfloriII's Avatar
Still pedaling...
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
Anyone who thinks Kerry won is seriously dilusional and needs to immediately seek psyciatric help.
I don't think Kerry won either-- heck I didn't vote for him. But I still don't like the new computer polling machines.
__________________

Current:
2014 VW Tiguan SEL 4Motion 43,000 miles.

2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport (wife's).

Past:
2006 Jetta TDI 135,970 miles. Sold Nov. '13.
1995 E-320 Special Edition. 220,200 miles. Sold Sept. '07.
1987 190-E 16 valve. 153,000 miles. Sold Feb. '06.
1980 300-D 225,000 miles. Donated to the National Kidney Foundation.
1980 240-D manual, 297,500 miles. Totaled by inattentive driver.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-12-2004, 12:12 PM
boneheaddoctor's Avatar
Senior Benz fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hells half acre (Great Falls, Virginia)
Posts: 16,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfloriII
I don't think Kerry won either-- heck I didn't vote for him. But I still don't like the new computer polling machines.
I like the ones we have where I voted. Only an idiot could screw up. That makes them perfect for Florida and the Alzheimer patients who don't know what year it is going to vote.

And anything that makes a clear distinction of yes or no is better, None of this having both candidate having holes punched but having people argue about which hole was bigger. Digital is good, its yes or no. No arguing about "intent" and weather the hole is big enough to count or not.
__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-12-2004, 12:22 PM
PHAEDRUS242's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Shakedown Street
Posts: 423
VD's back online...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-12-2004, 12:26 PM
mikemover's Avatar
All-seeing, all-knowing.
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 5,514
I read about that earlier. I'm a big supporter of Badnarik, the libertarian candidate, and of "3rd parties" in general....but this is an embarrassment.

It's just a re-hash of the same sore-loser, race-baiting crap we heard from FL Democrats after the last election. Why does this drama happen every time there's a close vote? I especially don't understand why these 3rd party candidates are participating in the absurdity....they are usually "above" such conspiracy-theory rubbish. Just because the margin was close does not imply that there was fraud.

I DO think the new computer machines, although easy to use and easy to count, they SHOULD print a paper back-up copy that can be used in case of a software glitch or system failure or other unforseen disaster, or the unlikely event of a REAL case of hacking or fraud (UNLIKE what we're hearing from Ohio today).

Mike
__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-12-2004, 12:26 PM
MTI's Avatar
MTI MTI is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 10,626
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHAEDRUS242
VD's back online...
Yes, and you better not disparage his point of view, otherwise he's going to take financial retribution against Phil and Fastlane.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-12-2004, 12:29 PM
PHAEDRUS242's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Shakedown Street
Posts: 423
We'll start a collection, for every dollar he doesn't give Phil, we'll make up the difference.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-12-2004, 12:35 PM
GermanStar's Avatar
Annelid wrangler
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 4,932
You guys are rough.....
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-12-2004, 12:44 PM
boneheaddoctor's Avatar
Senior Benz fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hells half acre (Great Falls, Virginia)
Posts: 16,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI
Yes, and you better not disparage his point of view, otherwise he's going to take financial retribution against Phil and Fastlane.
That was in reference to the idiot that used to moderate this board. Not by people I disagree with here. That mod was biased. And if they supported that mod I would not support them.
__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page