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  #1  
Old 12-23-2004, 08:22 AM
boneheaddoctor's Avatar
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Question for the lawyers amoung us.......

THis has to do with small claims court.....


If you are threatened with an unfounded leagal case......you secure a lawyer, to have a letter drafted explaining the situation to the other party and telling them if they procede you will seek affirmative defenses including contributory negligence and seek sanction against them for pursuing a claim lacking a credible basis in fact or law. The subsequently drop the issue....can they be taken to small claims court for redress of the legal fees incurred by you? This is in the State of Virginia.

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  #2  
Old 12-23-2004, 08:28 AM
MedMech
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No lawyers in small claims:

All parties shall represent themselves in actions before the small claims court except as follows:

1. A corporate or partnership plaintiff or defendant may be represented by an owner, a general partner, an officer or an employee of that corporation or partnership. An attorney may serve in this capacity if he is appearing pro se, but he may not serve in a representative capacity.
2. A plaintiff or defendant who, in the judge's opinion, is unable to understand or participate on his own behalf in the hearing may be represented by a friend or relative if the representative is familiar with the facts of the case and is not an attorney.
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  #3  
Old 12-23-2004, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MedMech
No lawyers in small claims:

All parties shall represent themselves in actions before the small claims court except as follows:

1. A corporate or partnership plaintiff or defendant may be represented by an owner, a general partner, an officer or an employee of that corporation or partnership. An attorney may serve in this capacity if he is appearing pro se, but he may not serve in a representative capacity.
2. A plaintiff or defendant who, in the judge's opinion, is unable to understand or participate on his own behalf in the hearing may be represented by a friend or relative if the representative is familiar with the facts of the case and is not an attorney.
Maybe I wasn't clear.....I had almost $400 in legal fees I had to pay due to the fools who threatened me. They have since dropped their suit.....

Can I go after the fools who threatened me in the first place with a false suit in small claims court to recover my legal fees I paid.

Their legal fees were chump change to them.....but $400 is $400 I can't put towards retirement savings now......no small thing to me.
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Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
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1983 300D W123
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2004, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
Can I go after the fools who threatened me in the first place with a false suit in small claims court to recover my legal fees I paid.
Bone, you certainly can file a small claims action to recover your legal fees. Hell, you can file an action against anybody for anything.

But, I highly doubt that you will prevail in attempting to recover legal fees.

That being said, judges in small claims cases are known to have quite a bit of "latitude". So, you never know. But, you will certainly annoy the piss out of the defendant(s). This may not be a wise thing to do if they have deep pockets and you do not.
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  #5  
Old 12-23-2004, 08:54 AM
MedMech
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Ok I have a question for the lawyers since small claims is supposed to be lawyer free, why would they award damages for lawyer fee's in connection with a small claims case.
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Old 12-23-2004, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
Bone, you certainly can file a small claims action to recover your legal fees. Hell, you can file an action against anybody for anything.

But, I highly doubt that you will prevail in attempting to recover legal fees.

That being said, judges in small claims cases are known to have quite a bit of "latitude". So, you never know. But, you will certainly annoy the piss out of the defendant(s). This may not be a wise thing to do if they have deep pockets and you do not.
My Lawyer is damned good, but not cheap...( was a member of G Bush Sr. leagal team)..told me with the facts of the case they could never win....I have reciepts to disprove their charges.......

Annoying the piss out of them is exactly what I want....they are cheap petty SOB's....In fact I hope I annoy them enough they end up having a stroke....they are both elderly.

It was a case of no good deed going unpunished.......

I did work some for them at 25% the going rate.....because the WERE friends.....and they thought they were entitled to have everything else needed done for free..(which was substantial)..I refused they threatened....it involved 26 years of neglected mainenance on a car.
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  #7  
Old 12-23-2004, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MedMech
Ok I have a question for the lawyers since small claims is supposed to be lawyer free, why would they award damages for lawyer fee's in connection with a small claims case.
Small claims court allows an individual or business to be compensated by a party who has not performed according to an agreement or who had committed some wrongdoing. The purpose of small claims court is to provide an informal, uncomplicated proceeding to resolve small disputes which do not involve enough money to warrant the expense of formal litigation.
It sounds like your legal expense was a "demand letter" and they have not lived up to your demand or their agreement. Now you can have the judge listen to both sides and make decisions based upon points of law. What is in your favor is the preliminary legal "demand" that was originally drawn up.
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Last edited by TX76513; 12-23-2004 at 09:16 AM.
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  #8  
Old 12-23-2004, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX76513
Small claims court allows an individual or business to be compensated by a party who has not performed according to an agreement or who had committed some wrongdoing. The purpose of small claims court is to provide an informal, uncomplicated proceeding to resolve small disputes which do not involve enough money to warrant the expense of formal litigation.
It sounds like your legal expense was a "demand letter" and they have not lived up to your demmand or their agreement. Now you can have the judge listen to both sides and make decisions based upon points of law. What is in your favor is the preliminary legal "demand" that was originally drawn up.
The Demand letter was claining I was paid to do some service I was not paid to do.....they in fact misrepresented the entire thing...

I was paid to rebuild 4 - 45DCOE webber carbs.(were leaking gasolene profusely)...and replace timing belts and tensioners on a Ferrari 308GTS ( 26 years old and 21 years past due for replacement by Ferrari requirements)........which I did, and to his satisfaction....

He then expected me to change the oil on his car and I told him I didn't have time...he then overfilled it by 8 quarts of oil doing it himself. It holds 10 normally. THe car for some strange reason proceded to leak oil from numerous places.....

Well the Demand letter stated I was paid "X" dollars to fix an oil leak which was worse than it was before...and they wanted the entire "X" dollars in return or me to fix the leaks....If I did neither I would be taken to court.

well almost 50% of what I was paid was for parts (really not cheap)....the rest labor, for over 20 hours of work. I had copies of reciepts...and so did the Ferrari dealer....I wasn't giving a dollar back becasue obviously those parts could not be removed from the car and returned.

Obviously I needed to secure a lawyer......because this was gross fraud. And was really extortion.

I must add this guy kept coming to my house begging and hounding me to do it for him. I had no time and really didn't want to do it...I was in the middle of souping up the engine in my honda.

Makes me empathise with mechanics that deal with this kind of crap day in and day out.

I am not a mechanic by trade.............
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Last edited by boneheaddoctor; 12-23-2004 at 09:36 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-23-2004, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Well the Demand letter stated I was paid "X" dollars to fix an oil leak which was worse than it was before...and they wanted the entire "X" dollars in return or me to fix the leaks....If I did neither I would be taken to court.

well almost 50% of what I was paid was for parts (really not cheap)....the rest labor, for over 20 hours of work. I had copies of reciepts...and so did the Ferrari dealer....I wasn't giving a dollar back becasue obviously those parts could not be removed from the car and returned.

That is certainly BS.

Just goes to show you that no good deed goes unpunished.

Your case is to recover the cost by your attorney for the demand letter that he prepared on your behalf for a meritless argument by the Plaintiff (them).

If you show up with all of your receipts, and show the amount of time spent on the vehicle, and show the amount of money paid to you, you might get some sympathy from the judge.

If you spend the $25.00 to give it a try, we will all be rooting for you................ooops, I cannot believe I said that on OD.
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  #10  
Old 12-23-2004, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
That is certainly BS.

Just goes to show you that no good deed goes unpunished.

Your case is to recover the cost by your attorney for the demand letter that he prepared on your behalf for a meritless argument by the Plaintiff (them).

If you show up with all of your receipts, and show the amount of time spent on the vehicle, and show the amount of money paid to you, you might get some sympathy from the judge.

If you spend the $25.00 to give it a try, we will all be rooting for you................ooops, I cannot believe I said that on OD.
Trying to decide if its worth losing a day of vaction time to do it....

You hit it right on the head...thats exactly why I want my legal fees paid....it wasn't a misunderstanding...it was gross fraud on their part.

This car also had all the smog and pollution equipment removed....in violation of federal and state law.....

They also have an addition on their house that I know they never got a building permit for because he told me so and did the work himself.....

No good deed ever goes unpunished is right.... I saved them $4,000 over what the dealer wanted to do the work I did.

I did get help from the Ferrari commumity like this one before and during the work.....

I had two shops that work on ferraris offer me jobs......I beat the labor books on this job by 50% (none local)
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Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
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Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Last edited by boneheaddoctor; 12-23-2004 at 09:54 AM.
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  #11  
Old 12-23-2004, 11:18 AM
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I understand the issue, and have been hosed before by bargain hunting thieves posing as friends, but ask that you decide how much more bitter stomach acid you want to give yourself in pursuit of $400. Add to that the additional lost income that will come from this pursuit. If you can just let it go........do so........

That said, a friend pursued a case similar to yours. In the end she had to go to court and got a settlement (the other guy didn’t bother to show up). Had to file again and go to court again to secure a lien placed on the guy’s property, and still can’t force the guy to pay, unless he sells his property. She had about 20 hours and several hundred dollars in time and expenses, and will likely never see a dime. The other guy just didn’t care. He obviously was sued before........
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  #12  
Old 12-23-2004, 11:20 AM
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  #13  
Old 12-23-2004, 12:15 PM
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My wife wants me to let it go too........

These people are dead to me and the can sleep with the fishes as far as I am concerned.....

Hopefully these people will get a dose of what goes around comes around.

All the local mechanics know about this guy now.......

Local zoning commission is soon to hear about the illegal home addition....

A little birdie might tell them.
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Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  #14  
Old 12-23-2004, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkamiya
This is for Med....

I don't know if small claims court will pay for the legal fee for the cases already dropped, but....

According to my attorney, you CAN hire an attorney to represent you in small claims court. In fact, I have seen some lawers representing client in the small claims court preceedings. But, he says, it is often not done because it's not financially feasible to hire a lawyer as fees are often way over the recovery.
Small claims courts are state entities. The rules for lawyers, threshold amounts, etc vary by state.
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  #15  
Old 12-23-2004, 12:25 PM
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In most U.S. jurisdictions, attorney fees (not costs) are not awarded in civil matters unless there's a specific contract provision, statute or law that provides for them, such as in landlord/tenant disputes, collections, etc.

Collection of repesentation fees and costs may be possible as a sanction (again, it depends on the jurisdiction) against a party upon a showing to the court that the suit was wholly frivilous and was brought merely as harrassement and not to further any claim under law or good faith attempt to change current interpretation of law. Typically, if the person is represented by an attorney, the sanction can be applied against the person, his/her attorney, or both. It's a very high standard that has to be applied.

As for having representation in small claims, I have seen "suits" representing clients in small claims. Again depending on your jurisdiction, a verdict in small claims may be binding in future cases, for example, there's a traffic accident, one party sues the other in small claims for the property damage under $1000 and wins. In some places, that small claims decision could also determine liability if later there's a personal injury claim. In some places, the small claims decision won't be recognized by "higher" courts, but it's best to check.


Last edited by MTI; 12-23-2004 at 12:31 PM.
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