I'm starting this thread because I care what you all think. This place is great.
What are your thoughts on Big Pharma before any movie has come out?

This is a tad different from the War in Iraq and Moore's last film. This new one may do more harm than good. The making of this film seems more to me as an attention getter than any real effort to help our country. Did "Roger and Me" help the folks in Flint,Michigan? Did he donate his profit on that film to the folks that got laid off? Moore supposedly spent a lot of $$ to unsuccessfully stop GWB from being re-elected. At least that was a cause where there was a possibly attainable goal.

Granted, the man is entitled to make a living and as much profit as he can muster. This is America, after all. I understand that.

Personally, I sell big ticket parenteral line equipment to big pharma so they can manufacture what they do.
The cost of prescription drugs is only 3% of the cost of the total healthcare machine that most of us or our relatives take advantage of..
I can't seem to find where I go that info now, but it stuck in my mind and based on my industry experience with large pharma companies, it seems to jive. Many pharma companies are now changing their HQ and mfg. sites to the US, since we are favorable to them. In the end, this provides more jobs in the US.


The following is taken from a posting on another board about Big Pharma
http://boards.fool.com/message.asp?mid=16230772
The whole article is worth reading as well as it's links.

Further from me: Now for the part of the article that best calls out my main points:

The time an average drug patent provides
marketing exclusivity is only about 12 years. The statutory
18 years is eaten up by time in clinical trials and time
spent getting to market, and even that only covers the
U.S. Many other countries don't recognize U.S. drug
patents at all, and the socialized medicine systems of
the U.K., the E.U. and elsewhere have failed to finance
the explosion of drug invention. The most inventive and
productive drug companies are here in the U.S., thanks
largely to greater profitability in America. So the key
point to remember is that after the 12 or 18 years are up,
the lifesaving molecule and the scientific know-how to use
it are freely available to everyone on the planet. If R&D
expenditures by drug and biotech companies are reduced,
and new medicines are invented more slowly and come to
market later, then many millions of people will die, here
and abroad. If we leave it up to the Feds to invent these
things, well, they probably won't. The people working to
save your life, your childrens' lives, and the lives of
your grandchildren are NOT the insurance/HMO companies or
the government -- they are the people working at Pfizer,
and Merck and Novartis, Amgen, Biogen, Abgenix,
Neotherapeutics, and at thousands of other companies,
many of while will never earn any profits.


Bottom line in all of this? It is totally complex and
really, the government is not helping things much with
all of the healthcare regulations. They have set up an
incentive system that is illogical and paper intensive,
while establishing such rigorous standards for quality
that all healthcare costs are increasing at double-digit
rates every year, not just drug costs! Most of us
don't see the true cost of health care though because it
is buried in the national budget via the tax code, and
it is hidden in the records of the insurance/HMO companies.
As a shareowner in a number of drug companies, I would
prefer that you attack the system as a whole, but I
recognize the fact that people have different opinions
shaped by their life experiences, and I respect that.
We should all ponder long and hard the idea that as
people who live in a free country and espouse liberty
and personal responsibility, we should plan on paying
more to live better and longer lives.

__________________
85' 300D No inspection, No registration fees, Cheap insurance
"If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour, you're going to see some serious %$&^."

Though I am pretty much a Moore fan, I think he MAY (or may not) be barking up the wrong tree here. I have some friends and relatives in big pharma, and they say, yes, there is a big problem. Just maybe not the one that Moore will focus upon.

The biggest problem is that every country but the US regulates the price of prescription drugs. As I understand it, these countries will not allow consideration of research and development costs in considering the regulated price of a given drug. That leaves those of us in the US to pick up ALL of the R&D costs FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD! And that ain't cheap, as we all know.

If Moore will focus on this problem and injustice, more power to him. If he focuses on the fact that drug development, like that of any product, can be subject to mistakes, he is correct. If he brings up the diverse pricing structure -- cheaper for HMOs and PPOs with bargaining power and higher for individuals with little or no bargaining power, he is correct.

Moore so far has been far more "fair and balanced" than FOX! And yes, I've seen all Moore's movies and I've watched FOX. I just hope he stays that way, and focuses on the real issues here, as he has before.

Thanks,
Richard

This is one I might watch. While I didn't like his Bush bashing, I do believe that all pharma, not just big pharma is doing more harm than good - and that they are just plain evil.

__________________
Jason Priest
1999 E430
1995 E420 - retired
1986 420SEL - retired

Did you see Farenheit 9/11? Moore didn't bash Bush. He merely allowed Bush to make a fool of himself. Did you see Bowling for Columbine? I watched the first half and thought "oh boy, another anti-gun rant." Then I continued watching and found the message was not anti gun ownership at all, but the atmosphere of fear and mistrust in this country. These were good movies -- and accurate too.

But sometimes business issues and problems (like those of big Pharma) are more complex than social issues. I just hope Moore can present the pharma problems truthfully.

Thanks,
Richard

Anyone see "Faren-hype 9/11" yet?

__________________
past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)

Like any movie, book, magazine article or television series, what's the point of yakking about it until you've seen it?

Holy Crap, someone actually got Bowling for Columbine

I'm not going to shed a tear if someone takes a shot at the pharm industry. They are big boys with hundreds of lobbyist and lots of money flowing in campaign contributions. They can take care of themselves.

I have a lot of doctors for clients. What I have found, across the country, is the pharm salesman pretty much bribing these guys and their staffs to buy their potions. Everyone in the country who woks for a doctor, is getting a free lunch, catered into the office, every day. Multiply that be the entire country, and thats a lot of damn money. It is an abuse of what is a deductable sales expense. Given the average person spends about $35 a week on lunch if he eats out, to me this represents illegally untaxed income. In addition, the doctors themselves and the office managers are showered with freebies - concert tickets, golf freebies, whatever they can legally get away with short of cash. The whole thing is sickening. F**k that "R&D" bull$hit, there has to be one hell of a profit motive to justify sales expenses of that magnitude. Where is the IRS? Where is the FDA?

I wish the P.I. field had a few lobbyists. Thanks to the (usual) bought and sold politicians and media, the insurance companies are getting rid of one of the only ways the consumer can fire back at big corps against all the ridiculous money games they play. Corps do not like check and balances.

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The only thing we have to fear is fear itself!

I saw one report that said that 90% of prescription drugs are unnecessary. But if the patient refuses them the patient is going against medical advice (AMA) and risks losing insurance coverage.

Kirk the reason lunches are provided is lunchtime happens to be the only time a Rep can unite the staff to educate them about the drugs.

I've spent my entire life in the medical profession and do admit that there are some excess's but for the most part the money spent by the drug companies is solely to educate doctors and nurses about the product. Perhaps you should sit in on one of those lunches and learn something.

How are the pharm rep's bribing the doctors? The Doc's are free to prescribe whatever they want. I'm sure you've bought a lunch or two to explain your business.

Gotta keep them pharmaceutical shares climbin'!!


Come on man, this is AMERICA! the land of economic opportunists,I mean opportunity.

Who cares if these drugs are ill-tested,hastily approved. Studies HAVE shown they CAN be effective and the high prices charged for them not only gives employment to millions but contributes to the research and developement of other nostrums to alleviate and perhaps cure a host of noisome ills,some of which have not even been categorized yet.

All I'm asking is that you keep an open mind.

__________________

KirkVining:

Yes, I know from friends and relatives in pharma that there is lot of sales rep to doctor communication and advertising in the pharma industry. Lunchs, breakfasts, yes, these happen. Pharma reps also give seminars, which help doctors stay up on new meds. Otherwise, the docs would have to pay for such continuing education, and that would have additional economic impacts.

Every industry has a market program. Look at "Momentum" mag and the MB ads in the media. They don't give these away. Plus, I was invited to a party at my local MB dealer that was like an event at a six star resort! Not cheap either. Pharma simply relies more on person to person contact and less on mass media. There's nothing wrong with that.

But read my post, which is the second in this thread. There is PLENTY wrong with big pharma, and the way it is dealt with by world governments and providers, which produces astronomical cost for too many Americans. But I submit that big pharma's marketing strategy is not one of these majoy problems.

Thanks,
Richard

Thanks,
Richard

John Le Carre's subject in 'The Constant Gardener'.

Mark

So far, I'm glad I started this one.
Someone asked why talk about it if the movie isn't out,yet.
Because most people know someone in the healthcare industry with stories and opinions and I'd like to get some thoughts in here before any media blitz.

Just to add...
Most of our clients are on the East coast in places not easily accessible by large airline on a reasonable basis. For this reason, we fly in small Pipers or Cessnas to get where we need to to sell our fine machinery. We don't feel sorry for Big Pharma while we sit in a plane with less room than a VW Bug inside while they are tooling around in corporate jets. My brother works for one of the big boys and he's taken more than a few leasurely flights to get someplace he could have easily driven in less than 1 1/2 hrs on the company's nickel. When I say tool around, I mean it.
Big Pharma is here because this is America where money can be made without Big Gov't telling you what you should make on it.
If I were, say, GSK or Pfizer, and the gov't tells me I can only charge $3 for a pill or vaccine that they say costs $2 to make and I have to keep $10 around for in reserve case some stupid judge decides to award something unreasonable to wipe the rest of my product lines out, guess what? I'll stop making that nice life saving drug and stop doing research to make similar items. I can always sell more generic viagra and have it made in another country for pennies with no risk, and I still get to use my private jets.

Now, if the gov't would start to do R & D, making their own stuff with the FDA really being responsible, then I could understand regulation here.

Digressing, I wonder why Mr. Moore doesn't do a movie about Big Oil and why my diesel is still up past the premium gas price?

__________________
85' 300D No inspection, No registration fees, Cheap insurance
"If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour, you're going to see some serious %$&^."