Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-28-2005, 09:57 AM
MS Fowler's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Littlestown PA ( 6 miles south of Gettysburg)
Posts: 2,208
Visit Gettysburg

With the start of the summer vacation season, and in because of a member's plan to visit Gettysburg next week, I thought it might be Ok to start a thread where we could discuss that battle, give advice, places to see, etc.
Is there any interest for that?

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-28-2005, 11:45 PM
vwbuge's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Johnstown, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,101
Never forget my trip there. I went almost 10 years ago on a whim on the 4th of July. Took Route 30 from Johnstown to Gettysburg. Took the old motorcycle.
__________________
'85 300SD (formerly california emissions)
'02 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
'04 VW Passat W8 (6spd manual) SOLD!!
'68/'69 Empi Imp body on '65 Beetle pan
'93 Ducati 900 SS
'79 Kawasaki KZ 650
'86 Kawasaki KX 250
'72 Triumph T100R
'70 Yamaha R5 Rat Bike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-30-2005, 10:17 PM
Botnst's Avatar
What knockers!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 37,548
I visited with a PhD military historian about 35 years ago. Nothing like being with somebody who knows all about everything. Even the terrain. Stand somewhere and he'd say, "General XXXX" was here with his staff" or "Here's where XXX soldiers met at bayonet point." If I were wealthy and wanted to learn some stuff deeper than a brochure, I'd go to a good university and hire a PhD grad student or post-doc interested in the history of that particular battle or campaign. Hire her/him for a couple of days at a good rate and pay cash. Pay for a day or two of research so the historian would have time to organize and provide you with copies of this and that. I'll bet for $2K you would get a hell of an education.
__________________
'Government is like a baby:
An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and
no sense of responsibility at the other'
- Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-31-2005, 01:29 AM
novaalison23
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: colorado
Posts: 117
my great great

my great too many times to say, was the first man to the top of little round top. Ive always loved gettysburg... ALWAYS.. there is also a house u should vist while there, a mini house, its sooo cool.. you can see the bullet holes from the war. when i went there was a tour you could take, and they would tell you about the river of blood, and stepping on other peoples heads to get over the fence.. (gag, but cool). okay im done, mesesd up my carpul bones thats wht the ty[ping stinks a bit (cant drive my baby eiher).
__________________
Kenni
'85 300D turbo
208K miles
FOR SALE (kinda)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-31-2005, 04:52 AM
MS Fowler's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Littlestown PA ( 6 miles south of Gettysburg)
Posts: 2,208
Glad to see some interest.
I have been studying/ reading/ walking the battlefield on odd days for years. I think I understand what happened on July1, and July3. July 2 is, to me the most interesting day. A lot of activity, much of it lost in the fog of battle, and probably will never be fully understood. The caldron of fire from all directions near "the stony, little hill" ( Not LRT), near the wheatfielf is, to me, baffling. It seems like troops from both sides sorta wandered there and began firing with no one in command knowing who was where.
I ponder the bravery that casues men to stand almost muzzle-to-muzzle and fire at each other. The fear of running and being called a coward back home was probably worse than the fear of death.
JLC ( Joshua Lawerence Chamberlain) probably gets all the acclaim he deserves; a truly great American! But there were others, many whose name, and even their deeds have been lost to history.
Then there are the politician-generals, who, for personal glory/ fame, ignore their orders , ( or diliberately misinterpret them) and send thousands of good men to needless deaths.
All in all, a fitting way to celebrate the Americans" who here gave that last full measure of devotion...."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-31-2005, 09:16 AM
Botnst's Avatar
What knockers!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 37,548
I think the bravery of standing muzzle to muzzle is mostly lack of imagination on the part of the field-grade (and above) officers. That was the way wars with firearms had been fought for 400 years--massed troops alligned and blasting away. They did it because the firearms, muzzle-loading smoothbore muskets, were so low-power and inaccurate that individual fire control was ineffective. The primary advantage of musketry over bow and arrow was that bow and arrow required lots of practice and highly developed skills. Muskets required a couple hours of training and you're good to go. Muskets were originally designed as a pike with a firing tube so that the soldier could take a shot at distance and then wail away with the pike. This evolved to the bayonet. Until the 1800's the bayonet was a more effective weapon on the field than musket shot, another reason why massed troops on an open field were the norm rather than exception.

But the firearms advanced faster than tactics in the 19th century. Mass production of rifled barrels and breechloaded weapons rendered massed troops on the field obsolete. So did explosive shot from rifled artillery. Unfortunately for common soldiers, most general officers didn't notice that change. A few did, mostly on the Confederate side. Nathan Bedford Forrest (my favorite general officer from either side) was one. He recognized that maneuvering of large forces was more important than massing. Same with Jeb Stewart and Jackson. One of Lee's greatest blunders was meeting union troops at Gettysburg and using 18th century battle tactics against 19th century artillery and small arms. Had the union forces tactics to match their weapons, they could've annhilated Lee's army instead of just soundly defeating it. But they were stuck with the wrong tactics, too.

Fortunately for the union, the confederates never acquired effective modern weapons. They were stuck with a collection of unstandardized smoothbore muskets and a strange mix of smoothbore field pieces.
__________________
'Government is like a baby:
An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and
no sense of responsibility at the other'
- Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-31-2005, 11:42 PM
MS Fowler's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Littlestown PA ( 6 miles south of Gettysburg)
Posts: 2,208
Don't forget the Whitworths. There were 2 at gettysburg which fired a hexagonal "bolt" from the north end of Seminary Ridge ( by the present Peace Light) to union positions on Cemetery Ridge, a distance of about 2+ miles.

As for the tactics being outdated by the weapons--the soldiers figured it out before the generals. Its amazing what an imprevement the mine' ball was---A conical round that was of a smaller diameter than the bore, so it could be rammed down the barrel, but with a concave back, that expanded and filled the rifling grooves when fired and had tremendous range and accuracy.

They weren't stupid. But I believe that because they were recruited from towns, and placed in regimebnts by towns, soldiers could not run away. Those left would remember that _____ ran and brand him a coward. If that happened you couldn't go home, ever. So you stood in line, and probably peeed your pants and did your " duty".

Its the command and control of troops spread out over miles and miles of field and then commanded by generals who might intentionally mis-interpret your orders that mystifies me.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-31-2005, 11:51 PM
Botnst's Avatar
What knockers!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 37,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler
Don't forget the Whitworths. There were 2 at gettysburg which fired a hexagonal "bolt" from the north end of Seminary Ridge ( by the present Peace Light) to union positions on Cemetery Ridge, a distance of about 2+ miles.

As for the tactics being outdated by the weapons--the soldiers figured it out before the generals. Its amazing what an imprevement the mine' ball was---A conical round that was of a smaller diameter than the bore, so it could be rammed down the barrel, but with a concave back, that expanded and filled the rifling grooves when fired and had tremendous range and accuracy.

They weren't stupid. But I believe that because they were recruited from towns, and placed in regimebnts by towns, soldiers could not run away. Those left would remember that _____ ran and brand him a coward. If that happened you couldn't go home, ever. So you stood in line, and probably peeed your pants and did your " duty".

Its the command and control of troops spread out over miles and miles of field and then commanded by generals who might intentionally mis-interpret your orders that mystifies me.
When I was a kid I lived in Atlanta, GA. Our neighborhood occupied a steep hill that during the seige was known as "Chatham's Salient". We found all manner of rifle and musket projectiles.

Once I found one that was conical lead and had a tin transverse plate detached from teh base with a peg along the major axis (I wish I could draw it. If the description needs more explanation, I'll try). It looked like gas would push the base plate fowart forcing the peg into a cylindrical void in the projectile base, effectively forcing a gas seal between the projectile and the barrel.

We traded the artifacts like kids traded baseball cards. In the late 1950's you could go downtown in Atlanta to the antique stores and buy buckets of projectiles. Also bits of uniform hardware and various edged weapons. My older brother became suffiently knowledgeable at 14 that he had a job in a store specializing in edged weapons of the War Between the States. Kids, what do they know. huh?

I spent my time in Atlanta exploring the creeks and woods.

Bot
__________________
'Government is like a baby:
An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and
no sense of responsibility at the other'
- Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-01-2005, 07:04 AM
MS Fowler's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Littlestown PA ( 6 miles south of Gettysburg)
Posts: 2,208
Your projectile sounds like a canon version of the mine' ball. I would suspect that the tin plate and peg would be required because of the higher gas pressures involved in large bore weapons. I am guessing that simply "super-sizing" the mine' ball would result in the skirt area simply blowing out and losing the gas seal.
Although technology was not as advanced as now, there were clever people, and arrived at some interesting solutions.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oil Filter question and long trip tips... willlyons Diesel Discussion 26 06-03-2005 10:09 AM
brake lining wear visit workshop sidwin Tech Help 1 02-21-2005 09:45 PM
2000 W210 E320 "Engine Fan - Visit Workshop" ckNSX Tech Help 1 03-01-2004 09:26 AM
MB Autowerks visit shoe Tech Help 2 07-31-2002 03:14 PM
The worlds fastest car, Dauer 962 factory visit here(link) Gustav Mercedes-Benz Performance Paddock 4 01-07-2002 11:41 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page