Explain this to me (Political (and long)) (Rare) - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

GottaDiesel · #16 06-08-2005, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

a stem cell is a stem cell if it comes from a aborted fetus or a toenail it doesn't matter.

Ahhh... Once again:
(Louder this time)

Wrong (very) again.

I've read A LOT of your posts, and while I'm sure in real life you can't possibly be the way you are here, I have to say. With all due respect. You have no clue when it comes to Stem Cell Research.

Here's the link again (very easy to read).

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question621.htm

Stem Cell Research would (and I hope does) have a horrid result of pharm. companies. THAT MY DEAR FRIEND is the real reason "he" doesn't support it. If you buy his "God" talk... then ask yourself how he sleeps at night sending young men and women to DIE in IRAQ. While People in OUR OWN COUNTRY die (and in Africa.).

But hey, what can I say. I'm clueless.

boneheaddoctor · #17 06-08-2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaDiesel

Ahhh... Once again:
(Louder this time)

Wrong (very) again.

I've read A LOT of your posts, and while I'm sure in real life you can't possibly be the way you are here, I have to say. With all due respect. You have no clue when it comes to Stem Cell Research.

Here's the link again (very easy to read).

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question621.htm

Stem Cell Research would (and I hope does) have a horrid result of pharm. companies. THAT MY DEAR FRIEND is the real reason "he" doesn't support it. If you buy his "God" talk... then ask yourself how he sleeps at night sending young men and women to DIE in IRAQ. While People in OUR OWN COUNTRY die (and in Africa.).

But hey, what can I say. I'm clueless.

Consider the source of that info......would you trust your life with its accuracy to an internet source? I know some people in the field and I trust them more.....there is a LOT of political undertones in this issue......and no certainty it will lead anywhere ....its not all as simple as the people with the biggest political issues would like for you to think...

GottaDiesel · #18 06-08-2005, 04:05 PM

One more for "BHD"

Pay close attention when you read the link to this fact:

"Embryonic and fetal stem cells have the potential to morph into a greater variety of cells than adult stem cells do."

Ok. Get it now?

Man, it's ok to have principles. You support war, and death, and political agenda. That's fine. But what reasonable position can you take that makes sense on this? The fetuses (most) that they use come from failed trials anyway!!! That means that they are going to destroy them ANYWAY!!!

Sucks when you know way way way too much about a topic doesn't it.

Yeah, for the lurkers, I have a real thing about this.

There is NOTHING wrong with looking at a person's position on something and saying, Ok, so maybe that isn't right. Stop thinking about party-lines, and dems v. reps -- it isn't how it is! Look at the PERSON and the PEOPLE they surround themselves with.

Ok.

Pete

MTI · #19 06-08-2005, 04:08 PM

If you get BHD to "get it" then you'll have accomplished more than any cell researcher has done in the last decade.

boneheaddoctor · #20 06-08-2005, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaDiesel

One more for "BHD"

Pay close attention when you read the link to this fact:

"Embryonic and fetal stem cells have the potential to morph into a greater variety of cells than adult stem cells do."

Ok. Get it now?

Man, it's ok to have principles. You support war, and death, and political agenda. That's fine. But what reasonable position can you take that makes sense on this? The fetuses (most) that they use come from failed trials anyway!!! That means that they are going to destroy them ANYWAY!!!

Sucks when you know way way way too much about a topic doesn't it.

Yeah, for the lurkers, I have a real thing about this.

There is NOTHING wrong with looking at a person's position on something and saying, Ok, so maybe that isn't right. Stop thinking about party-lines, and dems v. reps -- it isn't how it is! Look at the PERSON and the PEOPLE they surround themselves with.

Ok.

Pete

And do you believe everything else your read on the net too?

sorry, but I don't.....remember gene therapy.........not one person has ever been cured by that either....

Liberals are only arguing this issue becasue Bush is pro life.......

GottaDiesel · #21 06-08-2005, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Consider the source of that info......would you trust your life with its accuracy? I know some people in the field and I trust them more.....there is a LOT of political undertones in this issue......and no certainty it will lead anywhere ....

I would 100%, with ZERO doubt trust my life with the information in that link. That is a combination of various repeated information that is 100% accurate. I don't think you know anyone in the field. If you did, you would have NEVER made the toe-nail comment.

Close the door on the stem-cell babble, you simply don't know enough about it.

Concentrate on raising your post count by using sentances with tons and tons of: ............................ and more ..................... . Then bash "liberals". But pllllleeeeeeeeease step away from the Fetal Stem Cell debate. Because you have absolutely ZERO clue.

Focus on the rest of the thread.

boneheaddoctor · #22 06-08-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaDiesel

I would 100%, with ZERO doubt trust my life with the information in that link. That is a combination of various repeated information that is 100% accurate. I don't think you know anyone in the field. If you did, you would have NEVER made the toe-nail comment.

Close the door on the stem-cell babble, you simply don't know enough about it.

Concentrate on raising your post count by using sentances with tons and tons of: ............................ and more ..................... . Then bash "liberals". But pllllleeeeeeeeease step away from the Fetal Stem Cell debate. Because you have absolutely ZERO clue.

Focus on the rest of the thread.

Right..Mr. Stem Cell research expert.......

The people I know in the field say most of that stuff is all political driven propaganda....and I believe them...not the Stuff the babby killers are trying to get everyone to believe....

Rant all you want....I have to go pick up the wife right now.....

GottaDiesel · #23 06-08-2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

If you get BHD to "get it" then you'll have accomplished more than any cell researcher has done in the last decade.

If he understood what can be done with this research, and ever had a child or loved one that could be saved from it. He would change his tune. Until then, people don't really care. Read about transplant rejection and things like that. (Granted not always Fetal in this case)... but Fetal really is a major key. Mainly because those cells are amazing. They can become almost anything. Once we figure out how to better control certain aspects of the process.

I woke up when I read an article that said, "If you live in the US, and you want the best benefits from Stem Cell Research in 20 years, the best thing you can do is maintain your passport." That did it for me. Why try to CURE a problem when we can cell you a pill to mask the problem for life @ $1000s a month? If we cure you, then we can't make money on you over and over and over.

Sucks. Really. And people like BHD don't see it. It is OK to kill our men and women in Iraq, but it isn't ok to use fetus material that is going to get destroyed anyway.

Oh well.

GottaDiesel · #24 06-08-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Right..Mr. Stem Cell research expert.......

The people I know in the field say most of that stuff is all political driven propaganda....and I believe them...not the Stuff the babby killers are trying to get everyone to believe....

Rant all you want....I have to go pick up the wife right now.....

..... ok .......... go...... pick up............yer wife....................

(Did he just say babby killers?) Oh man. What a misguided soul. Babby killer....

Botnst · #25 06-08-2005, 05:05 PM

This is going to sound rude and all, but I don't think we owe other countries a damn thing. If we give another country from our treasury that which taxpayers voluntarily (if grudgingly) provide the government, that wealth is charity. They did nothing to desrve it except to be in a vicious cycle of brutal dictators and banditry followed by anarchy and another damned dictator. The people are so sick and starved that they support some local insurrectionist who will extort from them a goat, beans, millet, whatever. Then the cycle goes round again.

I don't like the idea of babies dying anywhere. It is awful and so preventable. If the government is not supporting efforts in Africa to our own personal satisfaction we have two alternatives that overlap. The first is to change government leadership to one that matches our vision. The second is to dig into our bank accounts and send money to a charity that does work in Africa.

They need to amend some of there tribal customs that spread STD's diseases and AIDS. There was a thread about that here at one time. Infected babies at birth grow to be parentless children through the ravages of AIDS and then the child dies of starvation or complication of AIDS.

Good luck.

Bot

GermanStar · #26 06-08-2005, 05:40 PM

Well, against my better judgment, I decided to peek in on this thread. I must say, it's one of the funnier damn things I've seen in a while. Carry on!

MTI · #27 06-08-2005, 06:41 PM

Botnst, don't gloss over the economic element that American foreign aid is still good for American business. The tax dollars that don't end up buying gold plated toilets for the local president, end up buying agricultural products from the American corporate farms, heavy equipment makers and let's not forget the firearms industry.

Botnst · #28 06-08-2005, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

The only time the African continent appeared on the US political radar was when there was a threat that the Soviets would extend their influence as the European colonial leaders withdrew leaving a leadership vaccum. American intersts were aimed at the petroleum resources of the Gulf, not the continent. Dictators could be bought and brought into line easier than trying to foster a true democracy for the people. In essence, we left Africa's problems to be dealt with by the French, the English, the Dutch and the other colonial nations. That is the legacy we have to deal with.

Stem cell research is just a political punching bag. Fundamentalist don't want to give an inch on the "right to life" fight, so they don't want any federal funds spent on research beyond the measly, corrupted lines that were grandfathered in. Meanwhile, states like NJ and Calif are sidestepping the ban on funding and using their own resources to attract and keep research going in the US. The research is too important and potentially lucrative to be stopped by an artificial ban on government funding. It may take longer, but the other public/private sectors worldwide will do it.

One has to wonder if those conservative objectors will stick to their beliefs if a viable treatment for Parkinson, MS, ALS or other neuro diseases is developed overseas or in those states, and they or their family is in need of it. Wouldn't that be the true test of one's beliefs?

Is there a ban on stem cell research? I didn't know.

MTI · #29 06-08-2005, 07:56 PM

The ban prohibits federal funds for harvesting stem plenipotentiary cells from human embryos such as those in abandoned embryos in fertility clinics and aborted fetuses, five-to-nine-weeks-old. Federal funding is authorized only for pre-approved cell lines. Federal research is limited to 64 existing stem cell lines.

There is no ban on the research itself, just that no federal funds will be used to sponsor the research, for what appears to be religious ethical reasons.

Botnst · #30 06-08-2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

The ban prohibits federal funds for harvesting stem plenipotentiary cells from human embryos such as those in abandoned embryos in fertility clinics and aborted fetuses, five-to-nine-weeks-old. Federal funding is authorized only for pre-approved cell lines. Federal research is limited to 64 existing stem cell lines.

There is no ban on the research itself, just that no federal funds will be used to sponsor the research, for what appears to be religious ethical reasons.

Ah, that was my understanding as well, up to the religous assumption on your part. I don't recall the Administration bringing stone tablets in for the announcement, but I could be wrong.

Point being however, that plenty of research can go on worldwide and in public and private labs. If you want federal dollars, follow the administrations rules.

I don't have a problem with that. I would have a huge problem with the fed banning stem cell research. But channeling money is what the Fed should do. It is their oversight duty. The next administration can change it. If that's your goal, get your minions working now for the next election to find a candidate that most closely matches you world view.

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