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  #1  
Old 06-08-2005, 03:40 PM
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Post Explain this to me (Political (and long)) (Rare)

I am really hoping for the member who wants us to lock up our daughters (or some such thing) will explain things to me on this one.

I am seldom one to post things like this as I value the folks opinion here greatly but I really do want a better understanding of things.

Disclaimer: Please do not interpret my political leanings based on this post. I support no party, I only support PEOPLE. Party lines mean NOTHING to me.

First read this:

--->

Broken promises
Bush declines to increase U.S. aid for Africa as a new U.N. report reveals the expected toll in child deaths from the failure to reduce global poverty.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
By Larry Elliott and Patrick Wintour

June 8, 2005 | WASHINGTON --

Three million children will die in the poorest countries of sub-Saharan Africa as a result of the failure of the global community to meet its promise of slashing the death rates of children under age 5 by 2015, the United Nations is to reveal Wednesday. With Tony Blair Tuesday struggling to persuade George W. Bush to back Britain's ambitious plans for Africa, the U.N. Development Program said the human cost to Africa in child deaths would be the equivalent of twice the combined under-5 population of New York, London and Tokyo.

A study by the UNDP -- timed to put pressure on G8 leaders ahead of their summit at Gleneagles, Scotland, next month -- showed that based on current trends, the global community will miss by a wide margin the targets it set for poverty, infant mortality and education in the millennium development goals agreed to by the U.N. in 2000.

<---

Which came from here:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/06/08/blair_bush/index_np.html

Now explain to me how it is that we went to Iraq to "liberate" (I think that sort of means "help" (correct?)) the people and guide them toward (what we think) is a better way of life. All in all, we went there to "help" them. Correct? (Yeah, and to look for WMD, which I think everyone is ready to admit wasn't even a close to a real reason.). So...

We went to Iraq to "help" people yet we won't "go" (or send money, or whatevery you want to call it) to "help" (or hey! let's call it liberate the people from AIDS!!) in Africa. Can you explain that to me?

After you explain that to me can you explain the following to me? Most countries are aggrisivly (ESPECIALLY ISRAEL) doing Stem Cell (ALL FORMS) research, yet we can't. Why? How does a single person get the right to decide that?

These are all very serious questions that I really would like to better understand.

Those that know me know I stay far far far away from these type of posts. But here's the way I see it:

In 50 years I'll be in my 80's. Can you imagine how much Stem Cell Research could help me by then? How about the impact of the financial and other costs of Iraq will impact my children (when/if I have any.)

Call me stupid, but I need a person to explain this me.

OH! And Answers like,
"Oh........................ Liberal people don't understand............................... blah blah blah...................."

Can not bother.

I am not liberal OR conservative.

Oh! And also, take a look at how many Americans are without health care. Think of what we could have done on that front with the Iraq money. Why did we decide to spend all that money with Iraq instead of REAL health care coverage??

I know, I know... lots of questions in on post, but I am eager to learn.

Thanks,
Pete

  #2  
Old 06-08-2005, 03:47 PM
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Plenty of stem cell research is happening in the USA today, Federally funded research......contrary to what the fetal tissue research folks want you to believe...the ban is on only ONE source of stem cell tissue. Not all the others...that is Liberal propaganda.

Africa...is mostly run by a bunch of despots who will divert most money for themselves...and the fact that people in africa for the most part refuse to behave in a manner that is accepted for most of the world....Ruwanda is the Biggest example...The Congo, the Nigeria mess....Ivory Coast...At least South Africa is trying to do the right thing....

Africa is overpopulated...if it wasn't there would not no famine there....The problems will continue until they are at a sustainible level....It is not our responsibility to feed the world at our expence.

One time help is fine.....the problem they have is not solved by one time help.

If Africa really wanted to help themselves they would not be tolerating and supporting the despots that run the place.....Examples are numerous.

Poverty in Africa?????? well that again is an issue they need to fix themselves...they can thank their governments for that....the USA is not here to provide welfare payments like the liberals are so fond of.....I am not working my butt off to feed half of africa. I pay too much in taxes already.

The biggest problems in Africa is the Africans.....what happens now is what has happened there for thousands of years........
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Last edited by boneheaddoctor; 06-08-2005 at 04:02 PM.
  #3  
Old 06-08-2005, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
I am not working my butt off to feed half of africa. I pay too much in taxes already.
Although I can put my finger on about 4 points that need to be addressed, and since you really didn't answer any of my questions, I'll throw my hat all the way into the fire.

So then working my butt off for Haliburton, Iraq, etc. That's OK. But not help starving people that are going to die from AIDS.

Or how about to help people RIGHT IN THE USA that don't have health care.

I just want to be sure I understand you right.

It is OK to work our asses off to pay for Iraq and Haliburton, but NOT ok to save lives of AMERICANS (those who could get better treatment if they could afford better healthcare)... AND NOT ok to save live of Africans that would be killed if they tried to displace the people in power.

Did I get that right? I'm clearly not as politically savy as you are, so you'll have to really explain things to me.

Pete
  #4  
Old 06-08-2005, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaDiesel
Although I can put my finger on about 4 points that need to be addressed, and since you really didn't answer any of my questions, I'll throw my hat all the way into the fire.

So then working my butt off for Haliburton, Iraq, etc. That's OK. But not help starving people that are going to die from AIDS.

Or how about to help people RIGHT IN THE USA that don't have health care.

I just want to be sure I understand you right.

It is OK to work our asses off to pay for Iraq and Haliburton, but NOT ok to save lives of AMERICANS (those who could get better treatment if they could afford better healthcare)... AND NOT ok to save live of Africans that would be killed if they tried to displace the people in power.

Did I get that right? I'm clearly not as politically savy as you are, so you'll have to really explain things to me.

Pete

How did those people get aids?.......think about it......this is not a flu pandemic....every person who gets it (outside of transfusion related) has a part in not following safe sex that has been well publicised for the last 2 decades...or is a drug abuser...and the same..its their fault and problem not ours.

Wasting my dollars on people who bang everyone and everything that lets them without using condoms and getting aids as a result is not our problem...

You want health care...buy it.....there are a lot of people with cell phones new cars and cable TV who eat out at restaurants rfrequently who refuse to spend the money on it.....I pay for mine they can pay for theirs....any company that has the money to lavish millions in CEO bonuses every year on top of millions in pay for the do nothings has the ability and the responsibility to provide healthcare for their employees, they do it for the fat cats..

You aren't working your butt off for Halliburton....unless you are employed by Haliburton.

Heres a thought what did you think about the money we were wasting in the Balkands and still are......on Clintons order...they were no threat to us....
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Last edited by boneheaddoctor; 06-08-2005 at 04:16 PM.
  #5  
Old 06-08-2005, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
You aren't working your butt off for Halliburton....unless you are employed by Haliburton.
Well, he's got you there. See, it's your KIDS who will eventually be working off what is being paid to Haliburton. The money currently being sent to Iraq really doesn't exist, as it's all deficit spending.
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  #6  
Old 06-08-2005, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by djugurba
Well, he's got you there. See, it's your KIDS who will eventually be working off what is being paid to Haliburton. The money currently being sent to Iraq really doesn't exist, as it's all deficit spending.
How about the money that has been wasted for decades on Public TV and Radio that is nothing more than a DNC propaganda diseminator....

your Halliburton Paranoia is unfounded..unproven and flat wrong....

Name one Company that has the ability to handle projects that size.....Not even Bechtel is up to that...only Haliburton is....and if you did it with a patchwork of smaller contracts who can organise such a thing...again there is noplace....and Haliburton runs it and pays the smaller subcontractors....

Like them or not there really is no other place up to the task.
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  #7  
Old 06-08-2005, 04:35 PM
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The only time the African continent appeared on the US political radar was when there was a threat that the Soviets would extend their influence as the European colonial leaders withdrew leaving a leadership vaccum. American intersts were aimed at the petroleum resources of the Gulf, not the continent. Dictators could be bought and brought into line easier than trying to foster a true democracy for the people. In essence, we left Africa's problems to be dealt with by the French, the English, the Dutch and the other colonial nations. That is the legacy we have to deal with.

Stem cell research is just a political punching bag. Fundamentalist don't want to give an inch on the "right to life" fight, so they don't want any federal funds spent on research beyond the measly, corrupted lines that were grandfathered in. Meanwhile, states like NJ and Calif are sidestepping the ban on funding and using their own resources to attract and keep research going in the US. The research is too important and potentially lucrative to be stopped by an artificial ban on government funding. It may take longer, but the other public/private sectors worldwide will do it.

One has to wonder if those conservative objectors will stick to their beliefs if a viable treatment for Parkinson, MS, ALS or other neuro diseases is developed overseas or in those states, and they or their family is in need of it. Wouldn't that be the true test of one's beliefs?
  #8  
Old 06-08-2005, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI
The only time the African continent appeared on the US political radar was when there was a threat that the Soviets would extend their influence as the European colonial leaders withdrew leaving a leadership vaccum. American intersts were aimed at the petroleum resources of the Gulf, not the continent. Dictators could be bought and brought into line easier than trying to foster a true democracy for the people. In essence, we left Africa's problems to be dealt with by the French, the English, the Dutch and the other colonial nations. That is the legacy we have to deal with.

Stem cell research is just a political punching bag. Fundamentalist don't want to give an inch on the "right to life" fight, so they don't want any federal funds spent on research beyond the measly, corrupted lines that were grandfathered in. Meanwhile, states like NJ and Calif are sidestepping the ban on funding and using their own resources to attract and keep research going in the US. The research is too important and potentially lucrative to be stopped by an artificial ban on government funding. It may take longer, but the other public/private sectors worldwide will do it.

One has to wonder if those conservative objectors will stick to their beliefs if a viable treatment for Parkinson, MS, ALS or other neuro diseases is developed overseas or in those states, and they or their family is in need of it. Wouldn't that be the true test of one's beliefs?
Fetal cells are not the only place to get stem cells........but thats the only one that is banned....very miopic to worry about one source when all the others are availible.......the fact thats the only one the left worries about tell a lot about their agenda...and its not stem cell research.
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Old 06-08-2005, 04:43 PM
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Somebody PM me when BHD starts mentioning beastiality in this thread.
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Old 06-08-2005, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MTI
Somebody PM me when BHD starts mentioning beastiality in this thread.
I'll save you the wait....but a human can't impregnate a monkey.....therefore not get fetal cells from it....so they have to settle on stem cells from the multiple other means......a stem cell is a stem cell if it comes from a aborted fetus or a toenail it doesn't matter.
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Old 06-08-2005, 04:49 PM
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Your knowledge of cell research, biochemistry, molecular biology is matched only by your apparent knowledge of deviant sexual activity. Gosh, is there anything you don't know about?
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Old 06-08-2005, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MTI
Your knowledge of cell research, biochemistry, molecular biology is matched only by your apparent knowledge of deviant sexual activity. Gosh, is there anything you don't know about?
The issue was "STEM" cell not fetal cell.....a "STEM" cell can become any cell they wish....thats why they focus on that....its the liberals trying to make a political point who are fixating on fetal cells for Stem cell sources when they can get them from other sources..

Perhaps you can explain why the researchers are wrong about where they can harvest them...and why they have to come from aborted fetuses of all places....since thats your stance.
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Old 06-08-2005, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
The issue was "STEM" cell not fetal cell.....a "STEM" cell can become any cell they wish....thats why they focus on that....its the liberals trying to make a political point who are fixating on fetal cells for Stem cell sources when they can get them from other sources..

Perhaps you can explain why the researchers are wrong about where they can harvest them...and why they have to come from aborted fetuses of all places....since thats your stance.
Wrong. (Sorry)

Read here: http://science.howstuffworks.com/question621.htm

Fetal STEM Cells.............................

Ok. Carry on.
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Old 06-08-2005, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
The issue was "STEM" cell not fetal cell.....a "STEM" cell can become any cell they wish....thats why they focus on that....its the liberals trying to make a political point who are fixating on fetal cells for Stem cell sources when they can get them from other sources..
I'm sorry, this is the part I read, about what the topic was about:

After you explain that to me can you explain the following to me? Most countries are aggrisivly (ESPECIALLY ISRAEL) doing Stem Cell (ALL FORMS) research, yet we can't. Why? How does a single person get the right to decide that?

I guess I misintrepreted . . . no wait . . . that's your job! While you believe you can debate an issue with your brain tied behind your back, do us a favor and unleash that sucker.
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Old 06-08-2005, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI
I'm sorry, this is the part I read, about what the topic was about:

After you explain that to me can you explain the following to me? Most countries are aggrisivly (ESPECIALLY ISRAEL) doing Stem Cell (ALL FORMS) research, yet we can't. Why? How does a single person get the right to decide that?

I guess I misintrepreted . . . no wait . . . that's your job!
Stem Cell research isn't banned by bush....only harvesting them from aborted fetuses....Stem cells can be harvested from other sources just as well....

Its pure liberal propaganda that Stem cell research is banned.

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